S&W 27... 6" barrel.

tinymike66

tinymike66

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I am looking to purchase a S&W 357mag model 27.
Gun looks well used, some bluing starting to go and very light usage marks. Guy won't budge from $650.
Is this gun worth 650 in let's say poor to fair condition.
Serial # starts with S107###.
Any help would be greatful!!
 
I don't like the newer 27's ... I bought mine (6" like this) - 2nd gun - back in 1985. It's still the best shooter I have. I did a little bit of work on the trigger, replaced the springs. How bad do you want it? Now I just happened on a 4" Python (1980's vintage, brand new in box) I've yet to take it to the range but I'm expecting it to perform better than my 27. Still keeping the 27 though ...
 
The problem with buying used revolvers is many buyers aren't familiar with how to check their mechanical condition such as timing, ejector runout, endshake, flame cutting on the top strap, etc. A well-used revolver can be a lot more idiosyncratic than a semi with an equivalent round count.

Based on your description $650 is excessive for a Model 27 in that condition, though if some bluing is just starting to wear at common holster points (cylinder edges and muzzle) I wouldn't put that as "fair to poor". Photos would be helpful but without a hands-on examination of its mechanical condition, or at least a round count, it's hard to give a fair value.
 
As suggested you need to do a couple of hands on checks for cylinder end play and rotational side play when at full lockup.

End play is as simple as pushing and pulling back and forth and feeling for the clicking. A good way to do this is looking through the cylinder gap to the forcing cone and watch for any change in the daylight you can see. More than the thickness of a piece of printer paper is too much and needs adjusting. Ideally it should be either not at all noticeable or just a barely felt amount that does not affect the cylinder gap to the eye.

The quick and easy way to check for lockup is to dry fire the gun but do not let the trigger go. While it's held back against the rear travel with the other hand lightly try to rotate the cylinder back and forth. Again you will feel a little play but it needs to be very minimal. Once again if you can see and feel more than about the thickness of a sheet of printer paper worth of movement at the outer surface then there is some wear. At about the thickness of a business card it's getting to where it's significant but livable. Much more than that business card and it's a repair needed to get things back in proper tune. It's still safe to shoot with that much but you'll likely get a little more lead spraying out the cylinder gap when it isn't lined up perfectly with the forcing cone. And that can lead to a slight loss of accuracy if shooting for serious bullseye results. Repeat this lock up test with all 6 chambers.

Another test is to dry fire in double action with a very slow trigger pull to the hammer fall. Then check that the cylinder did actually rotate far enough to achieve lock up and can't be turned in either direction. If it does not lock up correctly when advanced in this manner then here again it has issues. And this one is a serious one since it means that the hand is too short and really should be replaced.

If the owner does not want you to dry fire it for these tests you can do them with your thumb used to control the hammer fall.

Normally for S&W revolvers "excellent" would be no detectable movement for either end shake or rotational play. But a barely detectable "click" but with no noticeable actual movement detectable by eye is very common and considered as "good to very good". Some minimal motion in either that you can feel AND see by eye becomes "fair". Much over the amounts I've offered for qualifying as "fair" and I'd likely walk away from it if you're looking for a really good shooting gun.

If it passes these tests then at least you will know that it will handle correctly and shoot well. It also indicates that the wear is from holster use. And these days I would suggest that $650 for a Model 27 in very good to excellent mechanical shape is not out of the question. But if there's any play that takes the gun down to only "fair" for any of the mechanical aspects then it's over priced.
 
As described it's in NRA 'Good' condition not poor to fair. Mind you, the guy may have a time selling a .357 'N' frame. Big SOB's, so they are.
 
I'm going to be odd man out here. The S107### serial number dates it to 1954-55 and that would make it a pre model 27 ......ie a ".357 Magnum" and it should still have the upper side plate screw (5 screw). If it's in decent operating condition I don't think some patina on the finish as described would damage the value too much and I think it would easily be worth the $650 ask.

edit

I just checked my 2015 Standard Catalog of Firearms Collectors Reference and Price Guide......at $650 I'd buy it ;)
 
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tinymike66 said:
I am looking to purchase a S&W 357mag model 27.
Gun looks well used, some bluing starting to go and very light usage marks. Guy won't budge from $650.
Is this gun worth 650 in let's say poor to fair condition.
Serial # starts with S107###.
Any help would be greatful!!
Click to expand...

Can you have a gunsmith locally check it out?
 
sunray said:
......Mind you, the guy may have a time selling a .357 'N' frame. Big SOB's, so they are.
Click to expand...

Tell that to me, my Model 28 and the big grin that rides with the two of us when we're at the range together.

Lots of folks like the N frame guns. And it's not like they are monstrously large. The Ruger Redhawk is actually overall larger although the two weigh about the same.

Hey Sailor, if it's a pre 27 I'm thinking that this makes it a Reginstered Magnum, no? That's pretty desirable in it's own way.

It's still not worth the price if the action isn't usable though. I'd still want to run the tests above on it before laying down my money. If I can't shoot it I don't care one whit how collectable it is or what the price is from some stuffy book of values.
 
I would agree that the quality of the action is the top consideration here, but if that is good I wouldn't quibble over the price too much. A good, old N-frame Smith with a good action is a fine thing to have. If the price difference is only that of a couple of boxes of ammo....well, you be the judge of what it's worth.
 
BCRider covered just about everything in his excellent post, though one thing:

BCRider said:
Another test is to dry fire in double action with a very slow trigger pull to the hammer fall. Then check that the cylinder did actually rotate far enough to achieve lock up and can't be turned in either direction. If it does not lock up correctly when advanced in this manner then here again it has issues. And this one is a serious one since it means that the hand is too short and really should be replaced.
Click to expand...
This usually means wear on the extractor star and it is critical to perform this test for every cylinder. As you squeeze the trigger or #### the hammer you will hear two clicks - one for the cylinder stop in the bottom of the frame releasing and tapping the edge of the cylinder (the cause of the "drag line" around the cylinder), and the second click indicating the stop has entered the notch on the cylinder and is preventing it from rotating. Since the extractor star has six independent bearing surfaces upon which the hand pushes to index it, each one is usually different. I have a Model 657 whose five cylinders are fine, but one locks up very late. However if ALL cylinders exhibit poor or no lockup then it's very possible the hand is too short and needs replacing.

It's worth noting at this point that incomplete lockup is rarely dangerous though it can mean you might be shaving lead on the forcing cone. Not good for the gun or your accuracy but not a death knell for the gun either. There is also a delicate balance in timing the cylinder stop so it is not engaging too soon or too late. Almost all work on Smiths (or most revolvers) should be performed by highly qualified gunsmiths well versed in them and with the correct, highly specialized tools.
 
BCRider said:
Tell that to me, my Model 28 and the big grin that rides with the two of us when we're at the range together.

Lots of folks like the N frame guns. And it's not like they are monstrously large. The Ruger Redhawk is actually overall larger although the two weigh about the same.

Hey Sailor, if it's a pre 27 I'm thinking that this makes it a Reginstered Magnum, no? That's pretty desirable in it's own way.

It's still not worth the price if the action isn't usable though. I'd still want to run the tests above on it before laying down my money. If I can't shoot it I don't care one whit how collectable it is or what the price is from some stuffy book of values.
Click to expand...

No..... Registered Magnums were pre WWII (1930's) This gun would be a "pre Model 27 5 screw" or in the parlance of the time just described as a "357 Magnum"

You can say what you like about collectables but the market is the market and I'd guess that gun would go near $1K on the US market. Now, having said that, I must admit I agree with you. I'm not really interested in owning a gun I can't shoot either.
 
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Id this gun is what you say it is you are a fool if you do not buy it for $650.00. This is a pre model 27 and they don't come around every day you know.

If you are not going to buy it and it is what you say it is send me the details and I will buy it.

Graydog
 
sailor723 said:
No..... Registered Magnums were pre WWII (1930's) This gun would be a "pre Model 27 5 screw" or in the parlance of the time just described as a "357 Magnum"

You can say what you like about collectables but the market is the market and I'd guess that gun would go near $1K on the US market. Now, having said that, I must admit I agree with you. I'm not really interested in owning a gun I can't shoot either.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that information.

The current idiocy related to firearms in the US has done odd things to the prices south of the 49'th. When I started out 7 years ago our prices on used handguns were higher by a good amount than in the US. Now with the panic buying down there it's the other way around in many or perhaps most cases other than for pure retail on new models. So yeah, I don't doubt that in the US at this time it would sell for up around that much.

I suspect it would sell for that much in Canada too. But the seller would need some serious patience unless just the right buyer came along just at the offer to sell.
 
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