S&W .38 Heavy Duty gift.

calmex

calmex

CGN Regular
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Location
Oliver, B.C., and Salamanca, Guanajuato.
An American friend who is leaving Mexico to return permanently to the U.S. has recently sold off his extensive collection of S&W Model 19's and a few other items, and upon leaving informed me he was "gifting" me his Heavy Duty. Well, Canada is agoin' nowhere except into Vomit Soup, so the wife and I decided to fly off to Mexico to visit friends, see our 6-month pregnant daughter and son-in-law, and go get the Heavy Duty and leave it in a safe place. Until we can get back here more permanently.

She's quite the beauty for such an old revolver.
Heavy Duty Right.jpg

It's a 5-screw Pre-War I believe.
Heavy Duty Left.jpg

Now this Heavy Duty sits with Phil Roettingers Magnum from the Pacific War and my Model 49 Pocket Snubby.
Mischievious Three.jpg

These firearms are stored real close to a place so dangerous, three people were gunned down (two women, one man) on the street just a block away from where my wife was taking this photo this morning. These guns are pretty safe from Canadian Liberals, but most firearms inside Canada are not unless Canadians wake up and realize that voting has consequences. There are wayyyy too many gun owners -- many on this website -- who voted at least once in the last 3 elections for the Liberals, NDP, Max or they just didn't vote. And they fully deserve to eat the complete serving they're being fed these days by the Canadian Government. It's only going to get worse, too, unless PP wins his majority, and soon.
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Beautiful guns, my heart rate increases anytime I see or am around revolvers. Just something about them. Anyhow, don't be too hard on Canadians or those on this board who voted Liberal (I'm not one of them btw), the way I see it, they were duped; lied to. Trudeau never had a platform of firearms reform let alone disarmament. His Liberal staff handlers only came up with it as a distraction from SNC Lavalin and the feminist cabinet revolt occurring amongst the va ginal cabinet ministers who believed they were answerable to no one.

Tribal divisions aren't going to help us, sticktoitiveness and truth will. Show the lies and sophism for what it is, and VOTE!!!
 
Painkillers said:
Beautiful guns, my heart rate increases anytime I see or am around revolvers. Just something about them. Anyhow, don't be too hard on Canadians or those on this board who voted Liberal (I'm not one of them btw), the way I see it, they were duped; lied to. Trudeau never had a platform of firearms reform let alone disarmament. His Liberal staff handlers only came up with it as a distraction from SNC Lavalin and the feminist cabinet revolt occurring amongst the va ginal cabinet ministers who believed they were answerable to no one.

Tribal divisions aren't going to help us, sticktoitiveness and truth will. Show the lies and sophism for what it is, and VOTE!!!
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You're absolutely right I suppose. A lot of the "bot" distractions urging people to vote otherwise are paid for, I guess. Pierre will win or he won't. I'm a one-issue voter, if I can't have my guns then the country is just of no use to me as a residence. I'd really like Canada to get back on track. My own opinion of Canadians is that they are dangerous naive, but at the same time I have to admit that although I prayed to God he would win I was certain Trump would not be allowed to do so: and glory-be, I was sure wrong about that. I hope we have the same wave coming up to hit Canada.

Revolvers have more power for their size with the calibers Mexico allows a civilian to have than automatics. A .380 Super Cal (a 142 grain LSWC at about 1125 fps from a fully-supported barrel) fired from a 5-inch 1911 is really only as powerful as really smokin' .38 Special +P+ Lee cast 160 grain LSWC at 1,000 fps from a 4-inch Model 10. AND, that 4-inch "Model 10" could be a remarked .357 Magnum Model 13 firing a .38 Heavy Duty load like the Elmer Keith 170 grain LSWC over 13.5 grains of 2400 giving about 1,300 fps out of a 4-inch. And yes, it would hurt to shoot that. It would hurt a lot more to get hit with it.

Size for size and power for power, revolvers win hands down here in Mexico for defensive use. Right where I am right now, "defensive use" is the priority concern. We'll see if that gets better over time.

As for Canada, I hope we get to vote soon.
 
The heavy duty was/is a beautiful S&W revolver. Sadly, I've never had the opportunity to own one.

And unlikely now, given the current circumstance in Canada regarding legal handgun ownership.

Glad to see someone out there has the opportunity to own this classic! :cool:(y)

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NAA.
 
Oh my, that is a thing of beauty!!! Just before the fascist hammer dropped, a buddy of mine had a shot at buying a small SW collection (5) in ON. Guy was 95 and decided it was time to liquidate. He had a very similar N frame to yours which I offered to buy. Changed his mind at the last minute so all are locked down until he passes away and then will be destroyed. Criminal... horrendous. I still think of that gun...
 
NAA said:
The heavy duty was/is a beautiful S&W revolver. Sadly, I've never had the opportunity to own one.

And unlikely now, given the current circumstance in Canada regarding legal handgun ownership.

Glad to see someone out there has the opportunity to own this classic! :cool:(y)

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NAA.
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I actually own two. I have one that I've had for about 20 years here in Mexico at the house of one friend. It's this one here, a Post-War Heavy Duty made in 1956 I think, and it's just a Gem. Here's a photo of it, alongside an N-frame marked as 38 Special that is registered by forum member Wally and is described better in this forum's thread: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...handgun-the-saga-of-wally-and-calmex.2370651/

This Heavy Duty hits dead-on to point-of-aim at 25 yards both with 158 grain .38 Special ammo at 820 fps, and full-power 160 grain LSWC ammo up at 1,320 fps using the Elmer Keith loading, and the same bullet at around 1,220 fps using the Skeeter load. And: it's pure .38 Special. A .357 round will not fit, which is something the Mexican Army sometimes checks for when one is registering as .357 Magnum caliber is prohibido here.
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A photo of my 1956 Heavy Duty alongside the Non-Reg. Mag. of my late friend Phil Roettinger, former head of the CIA in Latin America, veteran of the Pacific War and retired Marine Colonel. You can research more about this firearm -- one of the best documented on the Smith-Wesson Forum, by googling "Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!".
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And then the one I got a couple of days ago from a friend is not kept at another person's house, where the Phil Roettinger gun is kept now. These guns have not been re-registered to my name, and I never keep all my eggs in one basket. There are facist communism politicians like everyone's favourite Cuban Canadian who will try to go after people's guns to advance their own nefarious ends, and one must constantly work to twart their evil retarded plans. So my guns are in several locations, often known only to the person holding on to them. But yes, I have two Heavy Duty 4-inchers now. One made in 1956, and the other in 1946 or early 1947 as a "transitional Model" using Pre-War parts but built after the plant resumed civilian production after W.W. II. A war, mind you, that Trudy's fay father spent riding around Quebec on his motorcycle wearing an old German helmet while my Dad and his friends were landing at Normandy and fighting their way East. A disgusting family heritage that needs to be stamped out with the next election imnsho.
 
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Arcosdad said:
I actually kept the screen shot of it. Was it love at first sight?
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That looks like a 5-inch Heavy Duty. I've seen a lot of them, the Heavy Duty is extremely popular here in Mexico since it's really a .38 Special and yet will do anything a .357 Magnum will do. I'd have liked a 5-incher, but I keep falling into 4-inchers. I suppose I shouldn't complain, but I'm a bit of a Fresa when it comes to guns, if you understand the Spanish term. (It means "stuck up" when used to describe a person, otherwise it means "strawberry").
 
NAA said:
The heavy duty was/is a beautiful S&W revolver. Sadly, I've never had the opportunity to own one.

And unlikely now, given the current circumstance in Canada regarding legal handgun ownership.

Glad to see someone out there has the opportunity to own this classic! :cool:(y)

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NAA.
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And you, of all the people on this forum, strike me as the sort of fellow who would sport a Heavy Duty. Probably loaded with the Elmer Keith loading. It'll blow a bin 3-feet back off a pin table with the Elmer Keith load. This video is shot using the 100 fps slower Skeeter load (12.5 grains of 2400 instead of 13.5). And yes, with just S&W Magna grips and a grip adapter, it hurts my little girly-hand. I hope the law changes and you are able to get one.
 
Your other one reminds me of a Highway Patrolman. (y)

I did have the pleasure of owning one of those in the '90's in 4" trim.

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NAA.
 
Real Heavy Duty cylinders that have not been "drilled through to take .357 Magnum rounds" (usually by owners who do not reload, do not know how to spin guns in their holsters and who do not deserve to actually own and touch a real Heavy Duty) will not accept .357 Magnum rounds all the way down. I used to buy them off of Gunbroker and "import" them into Mexico where -- surprise, surprise -- they could be fitted into any 6-shot N-frame .357 Magnum making it essentially an ersatz .38 Outdoorsman or Heavy Duty. As I have stated, a properly loaded .38 Special case will do anything that a .357 Magnum will do. Dear old Elmer developed the .357 Magnum doing his research using normal .38 Special cases in Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman revolvers. But then, Elmer was a reloader who probably knew how to spin his guns. I met a lot of the old gun writers, but I stupidly talked a friend out of going to meet Elmer when we were driving near Idaho back in 1979. Stupid, stupid.
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I was given a five inch barreled S&W .38 44 Heavy Duty revolver by a (now late, sadly) retired RCMP inspector about 20 years ago. It had been a BC Provincial Police issue side arm, stamped BCP 6 on the butt, purchased by the BCPP through Marshal Wells hardware in Vancouver in 1937, one of a shipment of 11 such revolvers if I recall the letter from the S&W historian correctly. Then a few years later another friend gave me some live .38 44 rounds, the first I'd seen.

As the previous poster mentions, some of these Heavy Duty revolvers were converted to .357 cylinders. Mine is still original and I enjoy shooting .38 Special +p ammo in it.
 
Yeah, those big beefy N frame wheelguns should have no problem with .38 Spl +P or +P+ ammo! (y)

And .38 Spl target loads just like a .22lr in recoil, eh?

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NAA.
 
If you reload and want a 1930's style .38 Heavy Duty duplication load that's safe to shoot in your revolver (but not regular .38 revolvers) then load a 158 grain lead bullet (or 160 grain cast) and 12.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case. It's a powerful load, about equivilent to a modern day 158 grain lead SWC load (because modern .357 Magnum is seriously loaded down from it's zenith).

Some of those older revolvers develop "cylinder end shake" and this can be cured by end-shake shims ordered through Brownell's or other places. They come in .002 and .004 thickness and will get your Heavy Duty up and running like it was new.

The Elmer Keith Heavy Duty load was a 170 grain LSWC over 13.5 grains of 2400. Now, this is a powerful load! It gave me 1,320 fps out of my Heavy Duty and 1,350 out of my 6-inch Model 28. You crimp the 170 grain SWC into the crimp groove, not into the front of the driving band. Because it's in a .38 Special case, it will fit into the cylinder and not stick out the end like it would if it was loaded into a .357 case in a .357 N-frame cylinder.

James using my 627 and the Elmer Keith load in a bowling pin shoot.
 
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Work up to the Elmer load. It's easier on you and the gun with a 160 grain LSWC than a 170. If you still get "one thumb ejection" with the full load, you're there. We used regular small pistol primers and I think Elmer said he did too.

Elmer fired 1000 rounds of this load through a Heavy Duty without problems and then thought he was on to something and contacted S&W about it.

This load -- from a 4-inch or better -- should go through the driver of the 125 Suzuki bearing down on you and take out the shooter seated behind him with the Keltec.

What more do you want out of a revolver marked .38 S&W Special Ctg. ?
 
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Very nice S&W HD. Going from memory here. It appears to be very early post war, 46 or 47. From the picture it shows a large extractor knob with barrel cutout, one line "Made in USA" roll stamp and wearing early post war high horn diamond magna stocks. I believe the term used to describe this early post war S&W revolver is "Lerk", large extractor rod knob. Around 1948 some still had the large extractor knob but showing a two line address roll stamp. The early magna stocks, both K-frame and N-frame, had the high sharp square cut tops. Off hand I forget the term commonly used, seem to recall "High Horn" stocks? As the early post war boom kicked in S&W began to round off the tops of the magna stocks.

Also, the pre-war would still have easy to distinguish stocks and be the long action and possibly not have the hammer cutoff. ?? Post war went to the short action but some very early revolvers were assembled with existing pre-war parts and were still the long action. ??
 
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