Sabatti rifles

Hitzy said:
Receiver is cast, as are all the bolt guts and trigger guard/trigger parts, basically everything but the barrel is cast.
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Receiver is made of 4140 CM Steel, Hardened. Bolt is steel. Indeed, a mag well insert and trigger guard are made of cast aluminum alloy but it really doesn't matter. Trigger is made of steel.

Trigger was not bad, but can't be lightened further
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Trigger pull on mine (post#18) is 3.45+-0.34 lbs from five measurements. I don't see any problem with that. Perfect for my liking

Opening and closing the bolt is very stiff even after I disassembled, cleaned, and smoothed things out.
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the bolt has very positive lock but nothing unusual, not stiff at all for me.

It appears the receiver lugs are rough and the bolt lugs are not bearing even on them based on the wear marks I'm seeing after 50 rounds.
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I don't see any "wear marks" on my bolt lugs after 86 shots. Shiny black. Nothing's there even under a magnifying glass.

Mags are plastic and replacements are $45...meh.
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Definitely too expensive although I bought 2 spare. But the polymer is glass reinforced and the mags fit in smoothly.

It dings brass up worse then a semi on extraction which it something I've never had happen with a bolt gun before lol. And the chamber isn't very cleanly machined as there are several "lines/rings" around the brass after firing.
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So far, I've been shooting non-corrosive Tula and some Chinese ammo with steel cases so I can't comment on brass cased ammo. No dings on steel cases, anyway.

Barrel is ultra thin but free floated, 3 rounds before it starts shotgunning groups, but it is a hunting rifle so while 3 accurate rounds is probably acceptable, it does say something about their hammer forging and stress relief processes...not great.
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The barrel is made of 4140 CM, Cold Hammer Forged.

Scopes have to be mounted pretty high to clear bolt handle, not my preference.
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No scope yet selected. Still sitting on a fence which one.

$600 is pretty close to $850 which is CZ territory which is night and day quality wise compared to these. Even some of the other budget pieces (AB3/XPR/HOWA/VANGUARD/783) at the same price or less are better value IMHO.
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Disagree. The CZ 527 in my caliber (7.62x39mm) costs around $850 on sale and the quality is not better than my Sabatti for which I paid $575.

The bolt would drag over the mag, mag lock (a hole drilled in the back of the plastic mag) just needed to be a little higher, fixed with a file, all good.
Floor plate on mag was loose and rattling, glued it, all good.
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I don't have any problem with the bolt dragging over the mag for my rifle. The mag floor plates on my 3 mags, indeed, move when pushed but don't rattle at all!

Bore is extremely smooth....like zero copper fouling after each 50 round session. Usually takes me 600-700 rounds of shooting to smooth out a bore to where it won't foul at all. Gotta say, out of the entire rifle the barrel is the shining star.
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Same here. Sabatti has been famous all over the world (and definitely over Europe) for their excellent quality barrels.

Based on the prices $575-675, they are worth around that, no issue.
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Agreed. No doubt here.
 
If you look at the bottom of your receiver, you can clearly see it's made from casting opposed to milled from forgings or billet. It can be 4140 or whatever, but it is a cast piece. CZ is not, and Tenda has them on for $850 regularly.
They spot heat treat any contact areas like the receiver lugs, and primary extraction cam, not a bad process, but a cheap process that doesn't say high quality.
The bores are quite nice, but I can't say these guns are any more accurate then a button rifled $300 Savage Axis...so far mine isn't, but it does clean up quickly.
For quality/value/bang for the buck, Howa/Vanguard/Browning AB3 are all in the same price range but much higher quality build.
I may buy another Sabatti, I may not...at this point I still feel there are better alternatives for the same $$.
 
Hitzy said:
If you look at the bottom of your receiver, you can clearly see it's made from casting .
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What you mean at the "bottom of the receiver"? There is a cast ALUMINUM alloy insert there which is sitting in a mag well.

Anyway, 4140CM steel can be used for investment casting but after quenching and tempering its TS and YS are very similar to the wrought, machined and heat treated one. No big deal for me.

I bought mine in 7.62x39mm beacuse I can shoot still relatively cheap ammo for practice. I have another one, a Zastava M85 and the Sabatti is better build especially the Sabatti's bolt is very nice. Regarding a CZ 527 in this caliber, it's overpriced for me, not worth it.

By the way, recommend this video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSigD8OA1CY&t=279s
 
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05RAV said:
What you mean at the "bottom of the receiver"? There is a cast ALUMINUM alloy insert there which is sitting in a mag well.

Anyway, 4140CM steel can be used for investment casting but after quenching and tempering its TS and YS are very similar to the wrought, machined and heat treated one. No big deal for me.

I bought mine in 7.62x39mm beacuse I can shoot still relatively cheap ammo for practice. I have another one, a Zastava M85 and the Sabatti is better build especially the Sabatti's bolt is very nice. Regarding a CZ 527 in this caliber, it's overpriced for me, not worth it.

By the way, recommend this video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSigD8OA1CY&t=279s
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I mean remove the barrreled receiver from the stock, and look at the casting dimples on the bottom of the receiver...just like I said previously.
I couldn't watch 30 seconds of that guy lol. It's like it's in slow motion or something...brutal.
 
Quote Originally Posted by 05RAV View Post
What you mean at the "bottom of the receiver"? There is a cast ALUMINUM alloy insert there which is sitting in a mag well.
Anyway, 4140CM steel can be used for investment casting but after quenching and tempering its TS and YS are very similar to the wrought, machined and heat treated one. No big deal for me.
I bought mine in 7.62x39mm beacuse I can shoot still relatively cheap ammo for practice. I have another one, a Zastava M85 and the Sabatti is better build especially the Sabatti's bolt is very nice. Regarding a CZ 527 in this caliber, it's overpriced for me, not worth it.
By the way, recommend this video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSigD8OA1CY&t=279s
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Hitzy;14641720]I mean remove the barrreled receiver from the stock, and look at the casting dimples on the bottom of the receiver...just like I said previously.
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Now I got it. I didn't try to remove the action from the stock yet. But like I said before, it really doesn't matter since the strength is not compromised for the cast receiver part after heat treatment. After all, Bill Ruger started investment casting of steel for his guns nearly 50 years ago and the company has been doing it very successfully.

I couldn't watch 30 seconds of that guy lol. It's like it's in slow motion or something...brutal.
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Wow!
 
I've had my stainless 223 for about three weeks. As mentioned the bolt was stiff to close initially but it quickly broke in and is nice and smooth now. Definitely a cast reciever but so is my Ruger. Not a concern for me. The synthetic stock is very well made, heavy, but a quality piece in my opinion. Right now it seems to like 50g pills the best. It's not as accurate out of the box as Stevens 200 it replaced but it's more than accurate enough for calling coyotes. I didn't buy it to be a target rifle. Overall I'm very happy with it for its price. Would I pay more? Problably not but it feeds, extracts and ejects, something I can't say my Stevens was reliable at. I've found ads in old magazines for these rifles dating to the 1980's so if they've stuck around this long they can't be that bad. I'd buy another.
 
Ruger is one I would trust with investment casting, they have it pretty well perfected. One small Italian shop...my confidence is a little lower.
You can see how well the new Chinese investment cast M14 bolts are holding up in the battle rifles forum...100 rounds is around the failure mark.
Chinese are not quite there yet lol.
 
I had a rover 870 in 233 and it was cheaply made. I think the 762 version may be of better quality but I don’t think I have the confidence to buy another. Sorry.
The cz527 isn’t great either. mine has poor bolt fitment which gives it too much side by side movement. Gonna sell it soon on EE
 
Canada tail said:
I had a rover 870 in 233 and it was cheaply made. I think the 762 version may be of better quality but I don’t think I have the confidence to buy another. Sorry.
The cz527 isn’t great either. mine has poor bolt fitment which gives it too much side by side movement. Gonna sell it soon on EE
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I don't think there is any difference in the quality of the 600 and 870 series Sabatti rifles. They actually use the same footprint (inletting) for the 600 & 870, I'll take some pics later to show what I mean. There is an ugly receiver extension on the 600 short action to make it fit the long action stocks, all bottom painted pot metal is the same size for the 600 & 870, they just add more material for the shorter cartridges in the 870. Even the barrel profile is the same.
It's a good idea for a cheap manufacturing process, but not really what I call quality. Even the stainless rifles it's hard to tell what's actually "stainless" because they hard chrome everything.
For a 7.62x39 I think the best bet are the Howas. I have a Zastava M85 I got for $375 new and it's not even worth that lol. Once I get all the problems sorted out with it, it's gone.
 
05RAV said:
"One small Italian shop'.........!!! You must be kidding!
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How many do they sell compared to Ruger? 1/25th? 1/50th?
Sabatti rifles have never been big sellers in Europe. They were sold under the "Churchill" brand for a period and that went nowhere. They have several discontinued models which is also a sign of lack of sales/reinvention. The ones "unmentionable" are selling are likely firesale models someone couldn't clear out as well.
 
Hitzy said:
How many do they sell compared to Ruger? 1/25th? 1/50th?
Sabatti rifles have never been big sellers in Europe. They were sold under the "Churchill" brand for a period and that went nowhere. They have several discontinued models which is also a sign of lack of sales/reinvention. The ones "unmentionable" are selling are likely firesale models someone couldn't clear out as well.
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For how long did you live in Europe to make a statement such that Sabatti has never been a big seller in Europe? Their products are in every European Union hunting store. If they were not selling they would have been long gone. But they are still around for 400 years and still make profits. That is something to consider.
The quality is not measured by the number of items sold. If it was like that then China would be a clear winner in quality. I'm sure that investment castings made by Sabatti are on par with or perhaps much better than those made by Ruger.

By the way, that's how Sabbati make hammer cold forged barrels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=oALJDh43K3I
 
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Well here are some pics...BTW I measure quality against the 200+ rifles that have passed through my hands. There are much nicer/better made/more accurate rifles for the same $$ as these.
Weird receiver extension so the 600 will fit 870 stocks and the casting dimples.


Uneven bolt contact.



fast picture upload
 
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