Sabot slug vs muzzle loader range and accuracy question?

Spcamno

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I post in this forum hoping someone own both can give me an idea.

Own several rifled slug guns and know their range and limitations but have no experience on modern muzzle loader.

What is the realistic range on a muzzle loader and how's the accuracy compares to a rifled slug gun?

I am talking about those muzzle loader shooting sabot bullets not smokeless nor sabotless.
 
a 12GA sabot drops pretty fast, but a 20GA sabot hangs in there with .50cal ML if you ask me. If anything the 20GA sabot should travel more consistently then the .50ML.
 
The longest shot I have taken a deer with my TC 50 cal inline muzzle loader was 175 yards with a 250grain sabot projectile. That is probably further than I need to be shooting with my set up as at that range it is really starting to drop but it still was accurate enough to get the job done.
 
I have used a T/C pro hunter 50 caliber muzzleloader for years. I have taken deer out to 350-400 yards. In perfect conditions mind you.
With saboted 300 grain Hornady FTX Bullets and triple seven powder.

I load developed for accuracy, not power. That found me around a 110 grain (volumetric) charge. This has given me a very predictable trajectory, and with good optics it has been effective as most of my centerfire rifles. I have been able to get groups close to 1-1.5 MOA most of the time. That’s more than adequate for hunting.

I prefer to keep my ranges under 200 to keep the hunt sporting with the muzzleloader.

I owned a savage bolt action slug gun for about 10 years, and it served me well. Recoil was brutal at times, and accuracy was decent enough to shoot at game animals to about 125-150 yards. I recall 1.5-2.5” groups were the norm. I glass bedded the action and added some weight to the stock to manage the recoil better. It certainly helped!


It is my personal opinion based on this experience, that the modern muzzle loader is capable of better and more consistent ballistic performance out to the 200 yard distances the OP was mentioning.

All I know is that both types of firearms are fun to shoot and experiment with! Use what gives the most confidence out in the field.

Hope that helps some.
 
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Whatever you are using be sure to practice at longer distances to establish the trajectory of the slug as they drop off quickly. I use a 20ga SX3 and hit a 10" gong at 200yds consistently once I figured out the drop was actually 5" below the 200yd hash mark on the slug scope. I haven't used it on a deer out to 200yds yet, I try to keep shots inside 150yds.
 
150 would probably be my personal max with the ML. I have a TC Impact that is very accurate with 3x White Hots for charge.
I have a 12ga SX3 Slug gun, but haven't shot it beyond 100yrds and it has an Ultimate Slam scope with the ranges on the reticle.
Wind would be a big factor.
 
Does anybody here have a 10ML 2?I haven’t found a load yet that I’d trust that far. Tried some expensive custom bullets too. So far the best shooting has been a 300gr XTP and that’s not a 300 yard bullet.
 
I hunt deer with both a CVA Wolf modern muzzleloader and a 12g rifled barreled shotgun with Hornady SST sabots. I've sighted both firearms in at 100 yards at my local range. Both can group better than I can shoot, and no issues hitting a paper plate every time.

I used to use 50 cal PowerBelts in my Wolf but after examining ballistic charts and internet research (I know, I know) switched to 45 caliber pistol projectiles with a sabot. I believe the energy retained at distances over 100 yards is better with the 45 cal projectile. To me, the PowerBelts are more like a rifled slug - big, heavy, and best for shorter distances.

The 12 gauge sabot shoots a 50 cal projectile, and Hornady claims 1200 ft-lb at 200 yards (impressive). The 20 gauge Hornady sabot SST is 1200 ft-lb at only 100 yards and down to 815 ft-lb at 200 yards.

I would choose a single shot muzzle loader over a 3 shot smooth bore shotgun (Ontario hunting regulations - 3 shots max in a shotgun). And I choose a 12g rifled barrel sabot shotgun over a single shot muzzleloader.

YMMV.
 
Thank you for everybody's input.

I have taken just under a dozen whitetail with sabot slugs over the years (was thinking of using it on black bears but try to preserve my last few boxes of Accutips for dedicated shotgun season).

My closest shot being under 30 yards and my furthest so far is 230 yards (confirmed with my rangefinder) I zeroed most of my slug guns at 150 and on the 12ga accutips it will drop around 9 inches at 200s (confirmed and shot at paper at my range at that distance).

I do currently own several slug guns (all rifled) in 20ga as well as 12ga and my favorite is my A bolt and USH in 12ga ( has another 2 H&R in 20ga one heavy barrel and one light profile) and a 935 with 3.5" chamber.

For some reason none of my guns like SST (tried both 12 and 20 ga on all my five slug guns) but they all shoot accutips very well and some like Lightfields and Federal Trophy copper.

The only concern I am have is wind drift on windy days as I am not rich enough to shoot at paper at that distance to verify windage (my last few boxes of Accutips cost me $27 a box plus shipping and I bought their last five boxes).

I was looking into smokeless and sabotless knowing that's the way to go if I want real accuracy out of muzzleloaders but really don't want to spend the money and hassle to deactivate the charge / remove bullet at the end of the day when whitetail is not co-operating that day.

I know it is a very vague question but did anyone knows the wind drift difference between a 50 cal muzzle loader vs 12ga sabot slug at 200 yards?

What about bullet performance?

Out of all deers dropped with a slug I managed to recover three projectiles (all accutips) and they all did their job mushroomed perfectly and retained most of its weight.
 
I've used the 3" federal copper sabots out of a browning slug barrel and they are accurate and hit hard. Shots were on Whitetail inside of 100 yards. I've also used 2 3/4 Hornady SST out of a H&R Ultra slug gun and they also worked well inside of 100 yards. Both were 12 gauge.
 
To add to this, I have a rifled Hastings barrel for my auto 5. It shoots very well with winchesters slugs and Lyman 525 slugs as well. Like a 4” group off the bench on a good day with iron sights at 100 yards.
 
I've made kills with my CVA Paramount in 45cal out to a laser ranged 174 yards using the 285gr ELR bullet and 105gr by weight of Blackhorn 209. Furthest I've tested it out to is 300m and would have no issues on making a shot on a non spooked deer at that range or a little further.
 
Thank you for everybody's input.

I have taken just under a dozen whitetail with sabot slugs over the years (was thinking of using it on black bears but try to preserve my last few boxes of Accutips for dedicated shotgun season).

My closest shot being under 30 yards and my furthest so far is 230 yards (confirmed with my rangefinder) I zeroed most of my slug guns at 150 and on the 12ga accutips it will drop around 9 inches at 200s (confirmed and shot at paper at my range at that distance).

I do currently own several slug guns (all rifled) in 20ga as well as 12ga and my favorite is my A bolt and USH in 12ga ( has another 2 H&R in 20ga one heavy barrel and one light profile) and a 935 with 3.5" chamber.

For some reason none of my guns like SST (tried both 12 and 20 ga on all my five slug guns) but they all shoot accutips very well and some like Lightfields and Federal Trophy copper.

The only concern I am have is wind drift on windy days as I am not rich enough to shoot at paper at that distance to verify windage (my last few boxes of Accutips cost me $27 a box plus shipping and I bought their last five boxes).

I was looking into smokeless and sabotless knowing that's the way to go if I want real accuracy out of muzzleloaders but really don't want to spend the money and hassle to deactivate the charge / remove bullet at the end of the day when whitetail is not co-operating that day.

I know it is a very vague question but did anyone knows the wind drift difference between a 50 cal muzzle loader vs 12ga sabot slug at 200 yards?

What about bullet performance?

Out of all deers dropped with a slug I managed to recover three projectiles (all accutips) and they all did their job mushroomed perfectly and retained most of its weight.

With smokeless, you don't have to remove the bullet and powder at the end of the day, just the primer or ignition module. I had mine loaded for a year, still went bang and on target the next season when I was sighting it in(Ihad tape on the muzzle to prevent moisture getting in).
 
Thank you for everybody's input.

I have taken just under a dozen whitetail with sabot slugs over the years (was thinking of using it on black bears but try to preserve my last few boxes of Accutips for dedicated shotgun season).

My closest shot being under 30 yards and my furthest so far is 230 yards (confirmed with my rangefinder) I zeroed most of my slug guns at 150 and on the 12ga accutips it will drop around 9 inches at 200s (confirmed and shot at paper at my range at that distance).

I do currently own several slug guns (all rifled) in 20ga as well as 12ga and my favorite is my A bolt and USH in 12ga ( has another 2 H&R in 20ga one heavy barrel and one light profile) and a 935 with 3.5" chamber.

For some reason none of my guns like SST (tried both 12 and 20 ga on all my five slug guns) but they all shoot accutips very well and some like Lightfields and Federal Trophy copper.

The only concern I am have is wind drift on windy days as I am not rich enough to shoot at paper at that distance to verify windage (my last few boxes of Accutips cost me $27 a box plus shipping and I bought their last five boxes).

I was looking into smokeless and sabotless knowing that's the way to go if I want real accuracy out of muzzleloaders but really don't want to spend the money and hassle to deactivate the charge / remove bullet at the end of the day when whitetail is not co-operating that day.

I know it is a very vague question but did anyone knows the wind drift difference between a 50 cal muzzle loader vs 12ga sabot slug at 200 yards?

What about bullet performance?

Out of all deers dropped with a slug I managed to recover three projectiles (all accutips) and they all did their job mushroomed perfectly and retained most of its weight.

12g sabot bullets are far from equal among manufacturers. For instance partition golds are 50 cal while accutips are 60cal. 20g accutips are 45cal.
I can also add the accutips mushroom easier while the partitions give deeper penetration. Accutips dump their energy quickly and work fantastic unless you are set on having pass through every time.
 
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I shoot full bore .50 lead conical slugs in my cheap Traditions break-action muzzle loader, typically over either T7 or Goex FFg, often with a felt WonderWad between powder and bullet. Accuracy is, as has been lightly touched upon by an earlier poster, tuned into the load. Just because the rifle can shoot 150 grains of powder doesn't mean it should shoot that much. I've found accuracy comes in several "nodes" - in this rifle 70gr FFg is absolutely the most accurate load, followed by 90gr FFg. By the time we get to 110gr FFg the groups are opening up. At 150gr FFg one might just as well consider the rifle to be a 25 yard gun for responsible game harvesting. More powder is not better.

I've recently come into some Blackhorn 209 which will be used in accuracy testing in the future.

I've never had anything like accuracy from any of the pre-measured powder loads, sticks or pucks - they tend to break down unpredictably as the projectile is seated, thus rendering moot any attempt to achieve consistent seating pressure. Consistent seating pressure is one of the key ingredients in achieving good accuracy in any muzzleloader.

With a 90 grain charge I would very happily attempt a whitetail out to about 125 yards - after that I would be concerned about retained energy and lack of lethality. I would NOT be concerned about accuracy as my rifles print well out to 200 yards.

By comparison, I have an Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer in 20ga. For plinking I shoot Remington Sluggers through it. The design of this slug gun is excellent, making the shooting of slugs actually enjoyable rather than the miserable, punishing experience more commonly associated with slug guns. Shooting prone off my elbows at 50 yards, three shot cloverleafs are common. Oddly, group size opens up as we approach 100 yards, most likely as a result of wind effects as the slug rapidly drops velocity. Still, at 100yards this would be a highly lethal deer gun. I'm not sure I would want to stretch it past 125 yards. Again, I tend to favour guaranteed lethality over bragging rights on long shots.

Like others who have posted here, I don't have the desire to shoot very expensive sabot loads. For me the benefit of frequent range sessions with multiple training shots far outweighs the value of a potentially better bullet found in a sabot.

Oh, I should also mention that my most successful deer kills have been at ranges below 50 yards with (again!) a cheap Traditions Hawken-style rifle shooting a patched round ball. In fact the first deer I harvested with that rifle literally stood over top my 50 yard distance marker! That rifle is deadly accurate with 70gr FFg, a .490 Hornady ball and a .010 Wonderlube patch. When I say deadly accurate I'm talking group sizes at 50 yards which are difficult to measure because they are just one ragged hole not a lot bigger than bore diameter. Again, with retained energy being a primary consideration for making humane kills, I limit this rifle to 50 yard shots. So far it has only stretched to that distance once. By the same token, it has also harvested a whitetail literally at point blank range. In every case the round ball entered the ribcage and did not exit on the far side but rather ended up as a flat plate of lead lodged against the skin on the far side, having dumped its entire energy into the animal. Lethality with pure lead projectiles of this size and weight is phenomenal.
 
I have and use both. 3 inch 12 ga accutips shoot best for me. They don't go as fast as the box suggests. Not in my 22 inch barrel. The groups are good till they get to the transonic range. Just like my muzzleloader. Shotgun holds good groups at 150 but not at 200. Muzzleloader groups good at 200 but not at 250. However the muzzy load is a mid load of bh 209. There is more speed available if you want it that would keep speeds up and groups together to about 275.
 
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