Safari Arms .50 cal need help

bandit86

bandit86

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My first muzzle loader, Just picked it up, it's a beautiful piece of gear, percussion cap. But whoever had it used wise grips to remove the nipple and its a twisted piece of metal now, I need a new one, where can I get one?

Reading the hornady website, .50 muzzleloaders go from 1100 ft/lbs energy all the way to 3000 ft/lbs of energy, how would I know how hot of a load I can make for this gun? The barrel seems very thick, I probably wouldn't worry about overpressured unless it blows out the primer hole
 
It uses the same nipple as a Lyman. Same gun, diferent writing on the barrel. #11 cap.Lyman has the load tables on line if you do a bit of looking for their manuals. With a round ball and 2F powder you should be maxed out at 100 grains, 90 gr with 3F. Most guys shoot less. With a Maxi or Mini I top out at 80 grains2F and 70 3F on mine. Investarm the company that makes these guns also has an on line manual.
http://www.investarm.it/media/pdf/manuale_avancarica_uk.pdf
The Lyman manual lists a bit heavier charge.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/pdfs/lyc-ml-general.pdf
 
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Any shop that has muzzle loading supplies will have nipples. You need a #11 size but be aware some of the European guns use a 6mm - 28 metric thread while most use the standard 1/4 - 28 thread. Also, a proper nipple wrench is only about $10 and worth having because you will remove the nipple every time you clean the barrel (and grease the threads when you replace it). 45 - 50 gr of FFFg with a .490 ball is a good target load to start with and you may find 5 or 10 gr more or less to be your most accurate load for targets. Your hunting load will likely be somewhere between 80 and 95 gr FFFG with the same ball and patch combo. If you put in too much powder all that happens is increased muzzle blast and smoke because the excess powder is blown out the barrel to burn in the air. Over snow you will see the burnt powder grains that were excess for your barrel length. Longer barrels can effectively burn more powder to gain a modest increase in muzzle velocity... Strive for maximum accuracy rather than max velocity: you will have more than enough energy to put a ball clean through a deer at 100 yds.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Any shop that has muzzle loading supplies will have nipples. You need a #11 size but be aware some of the European guns use a 6mm - 28 metric thread while most use the standard 1/4 - 28 thread. Also, a proper nipple wrench is only about $10 and worth having because you will remove the nipple every time you clean the barrel (and grease the threads when you replace it). 45 - 50 gr of FFFg with a .490 ball is a good target load to start with and you may find 5 or 10 gr more or less to be your most accurate load for targets. Your hunting load will likely be somewhere between 80 and 95 gr FFFG with the same ball and patch combo. If you put in too much powder all that happens is increased muzzle blast and smoke because the excess powder is blown out the barrel to burn in the air. Over snow you will see the burnt powder grains that were excess for your barrel length. Longer barrels can effectively burn more powder to gain a modest increase in muzzle velocity... Strive for maximum accuracy rather than max velocity: you will have more than enough energy to put a ball clean through a deer at 100 yds.
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Very good advice
 
Can the barrel be removed for easier cleaning? Like pushing straight through?

What sort of pressure levels do black powder guns generate? I know I can't use smokeless, just curious.
 
The breech block on most traditional style rifles is not easily removable. Don't worry about it - just make sure you swab it clean and dry and lightly oil before storage.
 
bandit86 said:
What sort of pressure levels do black powder guns generate? I know I can't use smokeless, just curious.
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In his book "Black Powder Loading Manual", Sam Fadala has a chapter on black powder pressures. He tested a .50 cal rifle with 120 grs of Goex FFg and a 177 gr ball - the pressure was 7,800 PSI. Same powder charge with a 370 gr bullet - the pressure was 12,000 PSI. With a 420 gr bullet - 16,000 PSI.
 
At 16000 psi pressure that's he same what old rifles had for pressures, why only black powder? Ignites easier?

Edit: Nevermind I'm reading the sticky it helpful. Imagine that eh?
 
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I was at the museum today and they had a 1850s Springfield flintlock and a precussion muzzle loader. The barrell are so thin compared to mine, these guns on display had shotgun muzzle thicknesses, mine is about 3/16 thick. How could I find out (non destructively) what max pressure the gun can take?
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Any shop that has muzzle loading supplies will have nipples. You need a #11 size but be aware some of the European guns use a 6mm - 28 metric thread while most use the standard 1/4 - 28 thread. Also, a proper nipple wrench is only about $10 and worth having because you will remove the nipple every time you clean the barrel (and grease the threads when you replace it). 45 - 50 gr of FFFg with a .490 ball is a good target load to start with and you may find 5 or 10 gr more or less to be your most accurate load for targets. Your hunting load will likely be somewhere between 80 and 95 gr FFFG with the same ball and patch combo. If you put in too much powder all that happens is increased muzzle blast and smoke because the excess powder is blown out the barrel to burn in the air. Over snow you will see the burnt powder grains that were excess for your barrel length. Longer barrels can effectively burn more powder to gain a modest increase in muzzle velocity... Strive for maximum accuracy rather than max velocity: you will have more than enough energy to put a ball clean through a deer at 100 yds.
Click to expand...

you have this mixed up a bit. You've combined part metric (6) with part Imperial (28, from 1/4 x28) The metric sizes are 6x.75, or 6x1mm. My Safari Arms take the 6x.75mm size.
 
bandit86 said:
I was at the museum today and they had a 1850s Springfield flintlock and a precussion muzzle loader. The barrell are so thin compared to mine, these guns on display had shotgun muzzle thicknesses, mine is about 3/16 thick. How could I find out (non destructively) what max pressure the gun can take?
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A lot of those old rifles have been bored out over the years or even made into shotguns.

Your rifle is basically the same as a Lyman Trade rifle (I have one) and Lyman recommends a maximum load of 90 grs of FFFg black powder with a .490 patched round ball. I don't think you should try to push too much past that.
 
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bandit86 said:
I was at the museum today and they had a 1850s Springfield flintlock and a precussion muzzle loader. The barrell are so thin compared to mine, these guns on display had shotgun muzzle thicknesses, mine is about 3/16 thick. How could I find out (non destructively) what max pressure the gun can take?
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Stuff it full and you will find out . Might be less painfull to jump off a bridge.
You have the links above to the 2 resources for these guns .Lyman and Investarms. Both show the Max Safe loads.
 
Goldenlakepete said:
Lyman recommends a maximum load of 90 grs of FFg black powder with a .490 patched round ball. I don't think you should try to push too much past that.
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I think the best reference for black powder pressures is Lyman's Black Powder Manual. Umpteen pages by caliber and barrel length and powder type. For target shooting, I use 50 grains of 3F. For a maximum hunting load, I would bench the gun and work my way up to 90 gr to find out where your accuracy falls off. You may have to go to a heavier patch with heavy charges and there is no point in adding extra powder if accuracy suffers.

cheers mooncoon
 
Cleaned it thoroughtly after 6 shots, what horrible smell the gun had- like raw sewage. Started with Remington action cleaner then g97 and gave up, ended up soaking it with degreaser and hosing it out outside while running the brass bore brush. It was horrible, maybe there was something left from improper cleaning before I got it. I will try again, But if that is normal after shooting BP I'm not putting any more BP in that poor thing, 2400 here I come
 
Doing it the hard way are we?
Take the nipple off, set the breech end of barrel in a pail of hot soapy water, and clean it with by slowly pumping the rod with a patch till all the gunk is out.., Then use clean hot water to flush it. Dry patch it to see if it is clean, then a LIGHT COAT OF g96 TO PRESERVE IT. GREASE THE NIPPLE THREAD BEFORE PUTTING IT BACK. Takes about 10 minutes .
If that fails take some pictures and tell us how much you want to take it off your hands.
 
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I shoot a 50 hawken, Thompson Center, my target load is 65
Gr of 2f,, and a patch ball, hunting is 100gr 2f with a Ball
I do use maxi bullets and ,lee R.E.A.L bullets, also for deer
With 85-95 gr of 2f, one thing I will mention is that using
Finer 3f is all said and gd, but it also increases felt recoil
And pressure for nothing, also by using 2f , you also get better
Velocities, my gun is twisted 1:48 so it's the threshold
Barrel. Ball/ bullet
 
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