Safety concern: Turkish pump shotguns firing out of battery

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*********************** RESOLVED - Potential safety concern: Turkish pump shotguns firing out of battery *************************

******* Tests performed with a primed unloaded shell show no sign of a strike on the primer, even though the gun "feels" like the hammer drops. I have decided to leave the post up anyway, since other people may share a concern when feeling the hammer "drop" while the action is not locked. *********



I recently purchased a Turkish pump shotgun made by Akkar. Sold under the name Churchill. Similar guns are sold under the name Canuck Defender.

Please see the comment made by "Julio Gonzo" one month ago in this Youtube video. He claims that his gun is firing out of battery. I tested my Churchill gun (unloaded) and the hammer "drops" with the action not locked (out of battery).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMS7SjVkC0&t=2s

I performed the same test on an (unloaded) Winchester 1300, and the hammer does not drop unless the action is locked.

Since I have been unable to obtain any support from the store that sold me the gun (they refused to even look at the gun), and the manufacturer is in Turkey, I am seeking input from the knowledgeable members of this forum.

Also, if a representative of the manufacturer wants to chime in to explain how the gun operates to prevent firing out of battery, you are welcome to do so. The manual does not provide an explanation of this part of the gun's operation.

Update: GunCrazy762's suggestion is excellent: trying to fire out of battery with just a primer should give us a definitive answer.
 
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Ok I just tried this on my 12” Churchill and it did fire out of battery. I’m not sure if it decocks it or is firing. I will try it at the range with just a primer. I hope there is a fix for this because I love this shotgun.
 
Yeah same here, checked to see if the firing pin moved but didn’t seem like it, however, it still fires when the action is open...concerning. The shotgun I own is a Turkish made 13 inch called a bulldog made by Asil.
 
That doesn't mean it fires out of battery. It means the hammer drops.

If the bolt is the proper dimensions, the hammer won't hit the firing pin. Perfectly safe.
 
The Turkish lever action shotguns will also hammer drop with the bolt slightly out of battery (I tested this myself because of reports of out of battery firing with the Australia batch).

The hammer will drop, and the gun will fire, but NOT out of battery. The way the action is aligned, the dropping of the hammer forces the bolt the last 1/8" or so into battery before it connects with the firing pin.

Not sure if the same thing is happening with your pump, but it would be worth checking. It's worth looking very closely at how everything is interacting before jumping to any conclusions.

Given the large number of these guns in circulation, and the fact that everyone seems to be keeping their fingers, the cause for panic is fairly small. There's a lot more safety engineered into the design of these guns than you might suspect. No one wants a "Remington Trigger" lawsuit on their hands.
 
I just got back from the range. Yes it will drop the hammer if you pull the trigger before it is in battery. However it does not hit the hammer until it is in battery. If you pull the trigger too soon it basically acts as a decoker. You will have to cycle the action to recover the hammer. If you have questions let me know. But as far as I’m concerned after testing today mine is safe. Thanks for letting us know about it.
 
I have tried firing the gun out of battery, with a primed unloaded shell. The primer shows no sign of a strike, even though the gun "feels" like the hammer dropped. This resolves the issue for me. This gun does not present any obvious safety issue, in these circumstances. I wish to thank the members who contributed in resolving this issue.
 
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