Sako AV?

[guntech]

And what happened to that action to cause that? It certainly wasn't a "case failure" as mentioned.
There are plenty of Remington pictures to be found that look the same, or worse...
R,

That was a catastrophic case failure with a .243 Winchester case.

If you have pictures of a 700 blow up please post them. I have never seen a 700 action blown up nor a picture of one. I have seen instances where the case head melted into the bolt face and required a bit of work to replace the extractor with a new one, but the action was undamaged. Barrel obstructions easily blow a barrel.

 

[Rman]

That was a catastrophic case failure with a .243 Winchester case.

If you have pictures of a 700 blow up please post them. I have never seen a 700 blown up nor a picture of one. I have seen instances where the case head melted into the bolt face and required a bit of work to replace the extractor with a new one, but the action was undamaged.

What kind of "catastrophic case failure"? And that is the claim to have caused the damage in the picture? Just curious, as that level of damage is usually reserved for a plugged/obstructed barrel.
If you care to forward a 700 barreled action, particularly in 7RM, you can have as many pictures as you like?

R.

 

[guntech]

What kind of "catastrophic case failure"? And that is the claim to have caused the damage in the picture? Just curious, as that level of damage is usually reserved for a plugged barrel.

R.

If a barrel is plugged very close to the chamber that could cause a catastrophic case failure. Plugged down the barrel a ways would burst the barrel open and most likely not cause a catastrophic case failure.

How about an overload with the wrong powder... is that "catastrophic" enough for you? The case failed with the resultant destruction caused by the excaping gas.

 

[Rman]

How about an overload with the wrong powder... is that "catastrophic" enough for you? The case failed with the resultant destruction caused by the excaping gas.

Do you have firsthand knowledge of the failure pictured?
A rifle is an open pressure system... as long as the bullet can get down the barrel.
Pressure enough to detonate an action is surely enough pressure to push a bullet down the barrel?

R.

 

[guntech]

What kind of "catastrophic case failure"? And that is the claim to have caused the damage in the picture? Just curious, as that level of damage is usually reserved for a plugged/obstructed barrel.
If you care to forward a 700 barreled action, particularly in 7RM, you can have as many pictures as you like?

R.

Post a few pictures please.

WTF is "If you care to forward a 700 barreled action, particularly in 7RM, you can have as many pictures as you like?"

 

[iron cat]

If a barrel is plugged very close to the chamber that could cause a catastrophic case failure. Plugged down the barrel a ways would burst the barrel open and most likely not cause a catastrophic case failure.

How about an overload with the wrong powder... is that "catastrophic" enough for you? The case failed with the resultant destruction caused by the excaping gas.

I've seen that happen with a 338 Lapua Improved that was accidentally filled with Unique instead of the proper powder .
The Unique was used for fire forming, and the owner afterwards loaded some 250 grain bullets without changing the powder in the measure cannister .
Another CGN member later found the barrel about 45 yards down range, I still have a piece of the top part of the receiver.
The bolt held however ( Nesika action) and the shooter was not injured .
Cat

 

[m1008]

https://sakocollectors.com/forum/threads/accidental-discharge-with-open-bolt.9511/

Sako and tikka have a bit of a history
Some of the stainless guns, the trg-s and I’m sure others.

A t3

 

[m1008]

Post a few pictures please.

WTF is "If you care to forward a 700 barreled action, particularly in 7RM, you can have as many pictures as you like?"

Send him a rifle and he’ll blow it up for you. In the past I offered up a zg47 but couldn’t get any takers (the gun was ruined from someone drilling it for Parker Hale divots)

 

[guntech]

Fairly bad design if the bolt shroud allows a decocked bolt to travel forward far enough to contact a live round... although that is a pretty freakish accident.
I know it happened many years ago with a Vanguard in Victoria.

 

[Rman]

Send him a rifle and he’ll blow it up for you. In the past I offered up a zg47 but couldn’t get any takers (the gun was ruined from someone drilling it for Parker Hale divots)

Correct. If the cause was duplicated, then the damage would be as well, in pretty much any rifle. Including the "mighty" Remington 700. To suggest otherwise is silly.

A "catastrophic case failure" refers to the case itself failing and causing catastrophic damage. A plugged barrel causes a catastrophic failure of the action, at least in engineering terms. Gunsmith terms may different?

Operator error has nothing to do with design, either. Again, send me a Rem 700 and I'll easily duplicate what happened to the Sako mentioned. Plus a de cocked Sako bolt cannot be "pushed forward"...period, let alone have the bolt close.
Stuff breaks... especially if pushed hard. No rifle maker is immune to that.

R.

 

[bunny]

AV’s are excellent rifles, just too heavy for my liking.

 

[guntech]

Correct. If the cause was duplicated, then the damage would be as well, in pretty much any rifle. Including the "mighty" Remington 700. To suggest otherwise is silly.

A "catastrophic case failure" refers to the case itself failing and causing catastrophic damage. A plugged barrel causes a catastrophic failure of the action, at least in engineering terms. Gunsmith terms may different?

Operator error has nothing to do with design, either. Again, send me a Rem 700 and I'll easily duplicate what happened to the Sako mentioned. Plus a de cocked Sako bolt cannot be "pushed forward"...period, let alone have the bolt close.
Stuff breaks... especially if pushed hard. No rifle maker is immune to that.

R.

All brass cases will fail when the pressure rises beyond 70,000 psi. The design of the action will help limit how the gas dispurses.

Read about that Sako that fired a round with the bolt decocked...
And I personally had experience with a Vanguard that fired a round with a decocked bolt that was forced ahead. I had to testify in a settlement hearing with Weatherby.

You are dreaming if you think a 700 action could be blown the same way as the Sako action I posted. Buy your own action and try it, It's one of the reasons you do not see pictures of 700 actions that have been blown up. Barrels have been blown but I am still waiting to see a 700 action blown open. The 700 is the strongest, safest 2 lug bolt action ever made. Prove otherwise.

 

[Rman]

All brass cases will fail when the pressure rises beyond 70,000 psi. The design of the action will help limit how the gas dispurses.

Read about that Sako that fired a round with the bolt decocked...
And I personally had experience with a Vanguard that fired a round with a decocked bolt that was forced ahead. I had to testify in a settlement hearing with Weatherby.

You are dreaming if you think a 700 action could be blown the same way as the Sako action I posted. Buy your own action and try it, It's one of the reasons you do not see pictures of 700 actions that have been blown up. Barrels have been blown but I am still waiting to see a 700 action blown open. The 700 is the strongest, safest 2 lug bolt action ever made. Prove otherwise.

Ok...
All brass cases will fail how if pushed beyond 70,000 psi? Most will get stuck in the chamber, others may eject a primer. You have to get way over 70,000 psi to make really bad things happen.... to get the case to truly "fail" if that happens at all. The point is, as long as that pressure has somewhere to go, it will go there.

The Sako bolt can't be operated if it's de cocked. Period. You'd know that if you read what you just asked me to read.

Not dreaming, at all. It's been done. By me. In rifles supplied by Remington via an insurance company.
Blown open and blown up aren't necessarily the same thing, either.
The main reason you don't see many/any pics of blown-up Remington 700's was their ferocious defense and tactics to put such accusations to ground. And they were very successful in doing just that. A blackbelt in GoogleFu could still find some, buried deep in a forum somewhere...

Pressure is pressure and steel is steel. Create enough pressure and the steel will let go. How and where depends on the source of that pressure.

Your dislike for things Sako should be fairly well known, particularly the extractor, and that extractor being installed on other manufactures bolts. Didn't realize the dislike extended to the rifles themselves.

I have been kind enough to answer your questions. You have not answered mine. Please do, as it would be nice to know more about the action you posted. Still suspect a blockage, especially from such a small case.

R.

 

[guntech]

Ok...
All brass cases will fail how if pushed beyond 70,000 psi? Most will get stuck in the chamber, others may eject a primer. You have to get way over 70,000 psi to make really bad things happen.... to get the case to truly "fail" if that happens at all. The point is, as long as that pressure has somewhere to go, it will go there.

The Sako bolt can't be operated if it's de cocked. Period. You'd know that if you read what you just asked me to read.

Not dreaming, at all. It's been done. By me. In rifles supplied by Remington via an insurance company.
Blown open and blown up aren't necessarily the same thing, either.
The main reason you don't see many/any pics of blown-up Remington 700's was their ferocious defense and tactics to put such accusations to ground. And they were very successful in doing just that. A blackbelt in GoogleFu could still find some, buried deep in a forum somewhere...

Pressure is pressure and steel is steel. Create enough pressure and the steel will let go. How and where depends on the source of that pressure.

Your dislike for things Sako should be fairly well known, particularly the extractor, and that extractor being installed on other manufactures bolts. Didn't realize the dislike extended to the rifles themselves.

I have been kind enough to answer your questions. You have not answered mine. Please do, as it would be nice to know more about the action you posted. Still suspect a blockage, especially from such a small case.

R.

Obviously you do not know much about me. I loved my Sako rifles I shot for years. I soon realized the strength and safety of the 700 action when very early in my career 'fixed' a 7mm Rem Mag 700 that the owner had fired a Dominion .303 British round in. He couldn't open the bolt after firing. I removed the barrel, removed the case that was stuck in the bolt face, it was fully expanded and looked like a belted mag case at the back, with the front blown out ending shorter than a magnum case and looking weird. It took me a minute to realize what had happened. You could clearly read the printing on the case head. The owner did not know he had done that either but he said he did have a .303 as well as his 7 Mag. After getting the case off the bolt face the rifle was assembled, headspace checked.. and all is well. It was as good as it ever was. The action did not blow up because of the gas sealing abilities of the original 700 extractor system. The .303 bullet had exited the barrel leaving no damage.

I have no dislike for Sako rifles. I do think when only part of the Sako extractor system is installed in a 700 is about as stupid as it gets. It completely negates the strength and safety of the original design.
I posted that blown up 243 Sako action because the design proved the bolt guide worked as it was designed to... deflecting debris from the shooters face. Maybe the fools that do the Sako extractor conversion on 700's would install all of the Sako extractor system.

If you have blown up 700 actions, please post some pictures of them. I am sure you would have kept some.

I will repeat again. The .243 that blew up was due to a huge reloading error by the owner who was known for poor loading procedures. I did not see the others but I had a chance to see and photograph this one. The barrel was not damaged (no obstruction) and could have been installed on an action. The stock was in pieces from the escaping gases. The scope destroyed.

 

[Rman]

Well... I have only met you once, briefly, many many years ago. So no, I don't know you at all.

The 303 Brit in a 7mm RM is the one of the reasons a 7RM barreled action was spoken of. The action, in your case, likely stayed intact as the bullet left the barrel. Had the bullet not left, the outcome would be significantly different. Most likely a lighter bullet in the 303 saved the day.

I do not have pictures of the actions, nor would I have been allowed to keep them if I did. The actions were very difficult to blow up, and the scenario that was described to have caused the failure could not be duplicated. A case full of pistol powder could not duplicate the failure. Of note, we were restricted to the powder that the Plaintiff said he had. Only a significant barrel obstruction could, and that was not aligned with the evidence we were given, but heavily suspected and suggested. We never did find out if the Plaintiff owned a 303....

This is why the questions surrounding the failure posted. A huge reloading error... could be many different things as well. There were others? As in other failures, or other pictures?

Thank you for the information.

R.

 

[guntech]

Back in 2004 a stainless Sako blew up with factory ammo here on Vancouver Island. It was one of the rifles built with a bad batch of stainless that got out of the factory. Amazingly no serious injuries.

 

[Rman]

Not an A series rifle...

R.

 

[conor_90]

Stuff breaks... especially if pushed hard.

And when a SAKO A or L series blows the guide rib keeps the extractor from ending up in your brain pan.

What in the hell are you even arguing about?