Sako Extractor in 700 Remington
- Thread starter tiriaq
- Start date
Not a smart thing to do.
Originally the conversion was done to accommodate the PPC case on a 700 action... Why only part of the Sako extractor system was used I don't know. Perhaps the idea that the Sako "bolt guide" was actually a safety device escaped those who pioneered the conversion, or the fact that catastrophic case failures are rather rare.
The problem I have today with those conversions is very few of the owners know what they are getting into... perhaps many of those doing the conversion don't realize it either. I simply wish if you are thinking about having the conversion done you have the facts before hand.
The design of the Model 700 action is superior to any other mass-produced 2 lug bolt action ever made , and that by installing only part of the extractor system from a Sako (2 locking lug action) completely compromises that design. But the alteration is completely unsafe when it happens. We are talking about a catastrophic case failure. They do not occur on a regular basis. (In the US there have been serious injuries and at least one death associated with this conversion).
A Sako extractor is safe in a two lug Sako so why shouldn't it be safe in a two lug Remington? ... Because when people install the Sako extractor in a Remington they do not install the Sako bolt guide, which is the safety design incorporated in the Sako. That bolt guide is there to protect the shooter and anyone close to the shooter if a case fails drastically. I do not understand why anyone would knowingly install only part of the Sako system. If the Sako extractor and the Sako bolt guide were installed then the Remington would be as safe as a Sako. Not as strong and safe as the Remington was before alteration but safe.
Here is a blown Sako action showing how well the 'deflector' worked.
Originally the conversion was done to accommodate the PPC case on a 700 action... Why only part of the Sako extractor system was used I don't know. Perhaps the idea that the Sako "bolt guide" was actually a safety device escaped those who pioneered the conversion, or the fact that catastrophic case failures are rather rare.
The problem I have today with those conversions is very few of the owners know what they are getting into... perhaps many of those doing the conversion don't realize it either. I simply wish if you are thinking about having the conversion done you have the facts before hand.
The design of the Model 700 action is superior to any other mass-produced 2 lug bolt action ever made , and that by installing only part of the extractor system from a Sako (2 locking lug action) completely compromises that design. But the alteration is completely unsafe when it happens. We are talking about a catastrophic case failure. They do not occur on a regular basis. (In the US there have been serious injuries and at least one death associated with this conversion).
A Sako extractor is safe in a two lug Sako so why shouldn't it be safe in a two lug Remington? ... Because when people install the Sako extractor in a Remington they do not install the Sako bolt guide, which is the safety design incorporated in the Sako. That bolt guide is there to protect the shooter and anyone close to the shooter if a case fails drastically. I do not understand why anyone would knowingly install only part of the Sako system. If the Sako extractor and the Sako bolt guide were installed then the Remington would be as safe as a Sako. Not as strong and safe as the Remington was before alteration but safe.
Here is a blown Sako action showing how well the 'deflector' worked.
Not the same at all... in the case with a 700 you alter what is the safest, strongest 2 lug bolt action ever produced to considerably less. With a catastrophic case failure other 2 lug bolt actions are already considerably less than an original 700 system.
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
According to Jim Borden, the failures of the Sako extractors in 700's is because of loosely fitted barrel countrrbores. He still uses a Sako type in his actions, and has repeatedly tested to failure without a mishap.
All due respect to Jim Borden, but looking forward into the right raceway and seeing how open it is.... creeps me out.
All due respect to Jim Borden, but looking forward into the right raceway and seeing how open it is.... creeps me out.
I hear of this conversion from time to time and have always wondered why folks consider it. Is the Remington M700 extractor prone to failure, like slipping over a case rim? I've never heard of extractor failure with the M700s of friends who have them. To my eye, the Remington bolt-face treatment is very good.
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
Sometimes the front rim on the bolt counterbore can get broken out. Usually from trying to rip out a stuck case by pounding on the bolt handle.
In that case, something other than an OEM extractor is in order.
The bolt nose should be bushed for any conversion.
If not, the case rim will get hung up in the OEM extractor groove & cause ejection issues.
The ejector should be relocated to 9Oclock position also,or ejected brass will hit the scope turret causing the brass to fall back into the receiver.
Jim Bordan has also acknowledged the original 700 extraction system on a 2 lug bolt is superior when a catastrophic case failure occurs. Many years ago when I was on Benchrest Central we had a conversation about it all...
That has nothing to do with it. He has repeatedly spoken on the Sako extractor catastrophe myths. His position on it is pretty clear.
It is not a myth that the "3 rings of steel" and the original enclosed extractor make the 700 the strongest, safest 2 locking lug action ever made.
It is not a myth that when it is altered by installing a 'Sako style" extractor it completely compromises the original design.
... and Jim Bordan agrees with that.
It is not a myth that when it is altered by installing a 'Sako style" extractor it completely compromises the original design.
... and Jim Bordan agrees with that.
guntech,
I agree 100%.
Case in point-
A local who has been reloading since the 70's.
Bought 2ea identical 700 rifles,one chambered in 300 Ultra,one chambered in 338 Win Mag.
Working up loads for the 338 WMag,he is satisfied w/ his reloading.
This man in 4-5hrs at the bench may shoot 30 rounds,as he is not in any hurry.
Places the 338 in its case & takes it back to his pick-up truck.
Grabs the 300 Ultra & puts it in the machine rest on the shooting bench.
Flips the box of ammo open on the bench.
Chambers a round & fires.
Calls me on his cell phone stating the he can NOT move the bolt handle as if it was welded in place.
I tell him to cease & desist & stop by with said rifle.
I suggest that he run an errand while I work on said rifle.
I remove the scope/mount from the receiver.
I clamp the receiver & barrel in the appropriate vice blocks (brownells)
I spun the barrel off the receiver
There was a belted case(338WM) fired thru a 300Ultra chambering.
The brass had to be machined out of the bolt face.
I changed the rivoted extractor,ejector & spring.
I indicated the receiver & mic'd it's dimensions.
Nothing array w/ said receiver.
I spun the barrel back into the receiver & checked headspace.
Reinstalled the scope/base/rings.
All's well.
Rifle is shooting to POA,POI as it did prior to the issue.
Do not attempt the above w/ a Winny in CRF or Push Feed, Browning, Ruger, Tikka, SAKO, Bergara, Weatherby or any Mauser as the outcome will not catastrophic.
The 3 RINGS of STEEL in the 700 design worked per design.
I agree 100%.
Case in point-
A local who has been reloading since the 70's.
Bought 2ea identical 700 rifles,one chambered in 300 Ultra,one chambered in 338 Win Mag.
Working up loads for the 338 WMag,he is satisfied w/ his reloading.
This man in 4-5hrs at the bench may shoot 30 rounds,as he is not in any hurry.
Places the 338 in its case & takes it back to his pick-up truck.
Grabs the 300 Ultra & puts it in the machine rest on the shooting bench.
Flips the box of ammo open on the bench.
Chambers a round & fires.
Calls me on his cell phone stating the he can NOT move the bolt handle as if it was welded in place.
I tell him to cease & desist & stop by with said rifle.
I suggest that he run an errand while I work on said rifle.
I remove the scope/mount from the receiver.
I clamp the receiver & barrel in the appropriate vice blocks (brownells)
I spun the barrel off the receiver
There was a belted case(338WM) fired thru a 300Ultra chambering.
The brass had to be machined out of the bolt face.
I changed the rivoted extractor,ejector & spring.
I indicated the receiver & mic'd it's dimensions.
Nothing array w/ said receiver.
I spun the barrel back into the receiver & checked headspace.
Reinstalled the scope/base/rings.
All's well.
Rifle is shooting to POA,POI as it did prior to the issue.
Do not attempt the above w/ a Winny in CRF or Push Feed, Browning, Ruger, Tikka, SAKO, Bergara, Weatherby or any Mauser as the outcome will not catastrophic.
The 3 RINGS of STEEL in the 700 design worked per design.
Dan,
I had a similar experience only it was a .303 British fired in a 7mm Rem Mag. The case did not rupture, the back of it fire formed to a belted magnum with .303 British stamping. I lost that case years ago...
I removed the barrel and worked the case off the bolt face... I did not have to replace anything. I assembled the rifle and as far as I know it has been working ever since. It was the first 700 I encountered with a frozen bolt back about 1968...
I had a similar experience only it was a .303 British fired in a 7mm Rem Mag. The case did not rupture, the back of it fire formed to a belted magnum with .303 British stamping. I lost that case years ago...
I removed the barrel and worked the case off the bolt face... I did not have to replace anything. I assembled the rifle and as far as I know it has been working ever since. It was the first 700 I encountered with a frozen bolt back about 1968...
I have always categorized bolt actions as either "sealers" or "venters" as far as gas handling or the results of a case failure are concerned. The 700 may well be the very best of the sealers. When a case fails in a 700, everything is contained. I have also seen the results, in various bolt actions, of severe overloads or wrong cartridge incidents and the 700's always did a very good job of containment. I have told of the case where a 308 Norma was fired in a 7mm STW. The result was a stuck case, a bolt handle knocked off by the owner, and very little else. By the way, I also saw a 303 fired in a 7 Mag, this one a Parker Hale (Santa Barbera Mauser). While the integrity of the bolt and receiver were just fine, there were a few pieces missing. The Mauser is, of course, a venter.
I put Sako extractors in quite a few Remingtons but discontinued the practice. When I did install one, it was generally in combination with a new barrel where counterbore clearance was much closer than factory. Still, I never saw the results of a case failure in one of these, so I can't say the reduced clearance was or was not of any benefit.
I used the BSA extractor in some and I liked it better than the Sako. I have always planned on fitting a Savage-style baffle to a bolt for a 700 but have never gotten around to it.
I put Sako extractors in quite a few Remingtons but discontinued the practice. When I did install one, it was generally in combination with a new barrel where counterbore clearance was much closer than factory. Still, I never saw the results of a case failure in one of these, so I can't say the reduced clearance was or was not of any benefit.
I used the BSA extractor in some and I liked it better than the Sako. I have always planned on fitting a Savage-style baffle to a bolt for a 700 but have never gotten around to it.
