Same Gun Two Calibres 375 H&H or 458 W.M.

hoytcanon said:
If I was a theatrical Hollywood producer...

At the sound of the shot, the Buff skids nose first, in a swirling cloud of dust, to the very feet of our hero. In a breathtaking, "pregnant pause", the hero turns his dust streaked, sunglassed face to his PH as the sweat streaks reflect the crimson setting sun... He raises one foot and places it on the forhead of the Buff as it renders its final sigh, and little puffs of dust jet out of the beasts nostrils and swirl around our hero's legs... And in deep, serious, echoing tones he utters; "I AM the BOVINATOR!" (Of course in an Austrian accent)...
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It was more like him peeling off to take one of the trackers at the last second, and doing a somersault into the reeds and standing on his head instead of skidding, and water squirting instead of dust flying but otherwise pretty much the same thing. I might have said "I'll be back" or something cool if I'd have thought of it.:p Maybe next time.
 
Holy necro post!
I wonder what the OP bought.

Bell also died pretty well off.
Most ivory hunters didn't live long enough to get rich.
 
sunray said:
"...have a H&R Buffalo classic 45-70..." That'll kill any game you care to hunt.
"...put the bullet right behind the ear..." Actually into the slight depression on Dumbo's forehead with a .257 Rigby. Bell did it with a .303 British too.
"...big game hunting on a budget..." That isn't done with either a .375 H&H or a .458 Win. Neither cartridge is for an FNG on a budget either. Remington .375 H&H brass runs around $54.95 per 20. Any .458 is usually a special order. 30 plus years ago, 20 empty cases ran $50 though.
Guy came into the shop I worked in long ago. He was going to Africa and just had to have his own .458(you can rent 'em there). Bought a Win M70 African and 20 rounds of ammo. Picks the rifle up on a Friday evening. Saturday afternoon he comes in with the rifle, 18 loaded cartridges and two empties, asking us to sell it. The felt recoil is astounding. You should rethink the whole idea.
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A lot of misinformation here. The felt recoil is not astounding, by any means, for the .458 Win or .375 H&H. Both are well within the abilities of a practiced average shooter, and by no means severe. There are multiple brain shots used by Bell on Elephant, and the "Bell shot" was indeed from behind not in front, though he made those too just less often. His preferred brain shot was from behind with a .303, .318 WR, or 7x57. 7x57 was not his go to as assumed but merely one era of his tool kit.
 
Ardent said:
.375 H&H loaded hot with 300gr I actually find more unpleasant that .458 500gr. I've shot both side by side within a minute of each other in identical weight rifles, and my .375 was sharper than the .458. A 270gr .375 is mild, 300gr starts to move your shoulder a bit but still manageable, and max H4350 loads (80grs and a hair more) get your attention. The .458 was just a big shove without the sharpness of fast, heavy .375 loads.

As for Dogleg, perhaps Bovid Blaster or "The Bovid Hammer", no big girl pun.
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I haven't shot heavy dangerous game loads out of the .375 yet, and the .458 Win and Lott rounds were Hornady DG loads. Are the .270 grain loads powderpuff compared to 300s?

I was wearing a sissy pad and a jacket, and that RSM .458 really belted me. Brand new rifle split the stock at the tang after 4 rounds too. Colour me unimpressed. Now I have to send away to Ruger for a new RSM stock.
 
I find as soon as you get the speeds up, over 2,600 or a bit more, everything starts getting sharp recoil wise. Fast 270s are only slightly milder than fast 300's to my perception. The Lott is always a brute to my shoulder, though I find the .458 Win quite manageable and moderate, very similar to a standard 300gr .375 for me.
 
Ardent said:
I find as soon as you get the speeds up, over 2,600 or a bit more, everything starts getting sharp recoil wise. Fast 270s are only slightly milder than fast 300's to my perception. The Lott is always a brute to my shoulder, though I find the .458 Win quite manageable and moderate, very similar to a standard 300gr .375 for me.
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That's interesting. This could explain why I found a .30-06 Featherweight with 180s a bit less jarring than the .270 Featherweight with the usual 130 grains.

I'm getting a Winchester Safari in .458 WM to see whether stock design has much effect too.
 
WOW.............I thought we flogged this one to death months ago.

And shellshucker...........One can do what you do with the 458 with any cartridge, that doesn't make it versatile. Show me some factory loads that are designed for gophers, deer etc, there ain't none and loading cast bullets with shotgun powder is not what the OP was asking.
 
c-fbmi said:
WOW.............I thought we flogged this one to death months ago.

And shellshucker...........One can do what you do with the 458 with any cartridge, that doesn't make it versatile. Show me some factory loads that are designed for gophers, deer etc, there ain't none and loading cast bullets with shotgun powder is not what the OP was asking.
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Versatility is why I handload all my centerfire cartridges to get the results I want. Granted, for shmoes that only shoot factory stuff, there are plenty of options as well...but it will cost a fair bit to dial in your rifle compared to handloading. Oh yeah, SR4759 ain't designed as shotgun powder.:p

For me, I won't go hunting with factory loads in my rifles. I may shoot some factory stuff through my rifles just to get the brass, but that's the way I roll.:)
 
Ardent said:
I've used SR4759 reduced loads extensively in Africa for culling Impala, took a Zebra with one too. I use a Dacron fill on top of the charge, and a 235gr bullet for a .375 H&H, yields .30-06 performance and manners essentially which is pleasant if shooting a great deal.
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It's a great powder for many loads in cartridges from .17 Rem on up. I was loading my .375 H&H Browning stainless stalker with a load of 18.5 gr. of SR4759, held in place with a lightly tamped pinch of kapok filler and topped with a 270 gr. Hornady soft point & getting 1" and better at 100 yds. at a sub-sonic 1050 fps. average from a 22' barrel.

Real pleasant & fun load which can dump a pretty big critter with a well placed shot within 100 yds.
Another good powder to use is Accurate 5744.:)
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
Versatility is why I handload all my centerfire cartridges to get the results I want. Granted, for shmoes that only shoot factory stuff, there are plenty of options as well...but it will cost a fair bit to dial in your rifle compared to handloading. Oh yeah, SR4759 ain't designed as shotgun powder.:p

For me, I won't go hunting with factory loads in my rifles. I may shoot some factory stuff through my rifles just to get the brass, but that's the way I roll.:)
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Don't we all...........
However even by your criteria the 375 is still a much more versatile cartridge than the 458..........which is what I believe the OP asked
 
When I was looking for a larger magnum, after much research on the .375's, 416's and .458's, I decided on the .375 RUM.

I do think the .375's are more versatile than the other calibers they are generally compared to.

However, with today's laser rangefinders, and finger adjustable scope turrets, anyone who practices can lob even .45 cal bullets right on target out to a good 500 yards or more. And they will still penetrate plenty well to kill North American game. Honestly, even a properly loaded 45-70 can do this. I'm not even counting those dedicated skilled individuals who can shoot open sighted 45-70's to past 500 yards with boring regularity.

So, while I agree wholeheartedly with the "375's are more versatile" crowd, I can't agree with the .458 being that much of a niche cartridge. It may have been designed that way, for sure, but with modern ammenities and handloads, it doesn't have to be.

And if the OP wants to hunt North American big game on a budget, he should buy a used Mauser in 30-06 from Trade Ex for $400 and then he's done. :)
 
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