Same powder, different name

Cerdan

Cerdan

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
36   0   0
Location
Eastern Ontario
**As any lifeloving reloader should know, the only info you should stake your life and your limbs on is that which can be found in reputable, published reloading manuals. The data in this thread is for information purposes only, and should, at most, only be used as guidelines or starting points to further research. Failure to heed this warning could lead to this, or worse!**

I thought it'd be a good idea to make a list of all powders that are identical but marketed through different channels under different names. I only know of two pairs, between Hodgdon and Winchester, but I imagine there are more.

I'm not talking about powders that can reasonably be substituted, or powders with similar burning rates, but identical powders.

HP38 = W231
HS-6 = W540
Silhouette = WAP
HS-7 = W571
H110 = W296
H414 = W760

anything else?
 
Last edited:
From what I have read W231 and HP38 used to be slightly different and could be seen in different data in reloading manuals. But today it is one and the same.

Doing some more reading I found on the Hodgdon site that HS-6 is identical to Winchester's discontinued 540.

And if you were unsure H4831SC is the same as H4831 just "Short Cut" grains.

Ramshot Silhouette is the same as Winchester WAP. Ramshot bought it from Winchester.

I've also seen claims that HS6 is Winchester 540 and HS7 is 571 but haven't seen it verified on the company websites. Are 540 and 571 still available as Winchester products?


Fudd
 
ElmerFudd said:
I've also seen claims that HS6 is Winchester 540 and HS7 is 571 but haven't seen it verified on the company websites. Are 540 and 571 still available as Winchester products?


Fudd
Click to expand...

This info was on the Hodgdon website until recently.
 
I know of many. Although, I've never seen any ADI powders in North America under the ADI label:

ADI=Hodgdon

AS30N=Clays
AS50N=International
AP70N=Universal
AR2205=H4227
AR2207=H4198
AR2219=H322
Bench Mark2=Benchmark
AR2206H=H4895
AR2208=Varget
AR2209=H4350
AR2213SC=H4831
AR2217=H1000
AR2225=Retumbo
AR2218=H50BMG

Sometimes Quickload gives closer results with these powders than with the Hodgdon data. The load data from ADI is definitely usable with the Hodgdon equivalent because ADI is the one making these powders for Hodgdon. However, I don't think its any different.

http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/
 
BattleRife said:
I have heard (hearsay) that AA1680 is intended to be the same as the old Winchester 680.
Click to expand...

You are right, it is close but not the same. I also used to believe (really wanted to believe) they were the same. AA1680 It is a bit slower than W680.
 
Last edited:
Newbie's should not be reading this thread. Newbie's should be reading their manual or some other reputable written source and then double checking with another reputable written source.

Any newbie than gets their only information from this website and substitutes bullseye for H4831 should have their nose blown off. All you other safety Nazis that can't take a joke should blow your noses.
 
I was aware of the possible pitfalls when I started this thread, which is why I specified I was only interested in reliable, confirmed info, but I certainly wasn't expecting old timers, who consistently add to the richness of these forums with their experience, to knowingly and recklessly post misleading data in an attempt to show how unreliable information culled from the Internet can be.

That said, I tend to agree with ben and joe: no one, especially not neophytes, should take what they read on the Internet as gospel, and if they do, well, maybe they need a bit of a scare to remind them that handloading is serious business. I'll add a little disclaimer to the original post, 'cause in this increasingly litigious society, anyone could sue!

Back on topic, there are a couple more added to the list, thanks diopter, Elmer, Joe for the confirmation. Dogleg, MiG25, I'll need a little more before I can add it to the list. Kombayotch, since ADI isn't available in NA, I won't add'em.

ElmerFudd said:
Are 540 and 571 still available as Winchester products?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about 540, but I've read in numerous places that 571 has been discontinued since the amalgamation.
 
Last edited:
Cerdan said:
I was aware of the possible pitfalls when I started this thread, which is why I specified I was only interested in reliable, confirmed info, but I certainly wasn't expecting old timers, who consistently add to the richness of these forums with their experience, to knowingly and recklessly post misleading data in an attempt to show how unreliable information culled from the Internet can be.

That said, I tend to agree with ben and joe: no one, especially not neophytes, should take what they read on the Internet as gospel, and if they do, well, maybe they need a bit of a scare to remind them that handloading is serious business. I'll add a little disclaimer to the original post, 'cause in this increasingly litigious society, anyone could sue!

Back on topic, there are a couple more added to the list, thanks diopter, Elmer, Joe for the confirmation. Dogleg, MiG25, I'll need a little more before I can add it to the list. Kombayotch, since ADI isn't available in NA, I won't add'em.



I'm not sure about 540, but I've read in numerous places that 571 has been discontinued since the amalgamation.
Click to expand...



Cerdan,
Hodgdon had a feature on their website about W760 and H414 being the same but it is gone now. Winchester always made this ball powder for Hodgdon and now that the two names are under one roof the data now checks out exactly. A little too exactly, you couldn't get results that matched so perfectly if you did them twice in a row from the same can of powder. Same starting loads, same max loads, same pressures, same velocities. That tells me they never even bothered to run two sets of tests, just wrote the answer down twice.
Check it out yourself. May I suggest .270 Winchester and .375 H&H?

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom