Savage copper fouling?...

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1shot

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Hi folks,

Hoping to get some good advice here from Savage owners.
I bought a new 12FV in .243 a while back and the thing turned out some impressive grouping with factory ammo and handloads.
Trouble is the more I shoot it(40-50rds per week) my groups are spreading out and this evening I had problems even holding 1.5MOA... :(

I clean the bore after every session with Hoppes#9 and completely dry, then soak with Hoppes Benchrest overnight; which always works perfectly in my old laserbeam accurate Tikka.
But this Savage, you should see the amount of copper smeared down the grooves. Last night I cleaned for twenty minutes after a long soak with benchrest, and still its a copper factory. :confused:

Is Hoppes Benchrest just a "mild" copper remover, or is there something stronger I can use without damaging the barrel? Maybe Savage barrels are more prone to fouling, any suggestions other than buy another Tikka?
Thanks in advance,

1Shot
 
Some barrels foul more then others even if they are the same rifle.
Try some Sweet's 7.62 to get the copper out.
Or try some JB paste.
I think cleaning is over-rated, unless you have a fouling problem.
With that said, I shoot Moly coated bullets and will only clean when the groups open up. I went over 900 rounds last time and should not have cleaned when I did.
 
I'm sure that fouling is the problem here as the rifle performed well from new and accuracy has fallen off- with less than 500 rounds fired. Everything else is double checked and good from scope and mount security, stock/action torque etc.

The Hornady bullets used are non-moly in the handloads. Never had this problem in any of my other rifles... My Tikka M55 gets copper fouled after maybe 150 rounds but I clean out the copper and maintain tight groups. Perhaps the Savage barrels are just "rough" in finish??
 
The Savage Barrels do tend to be "Rough" compared to some others, In my experience. You need to thoroughly clean that one and see if it will tighten up again. Have you made sure that nothing else is responsible for the deterioration of accuracy you are experiencing? Guard screws tight, scope mounts and bases? Bedding OK? If all these have been checked and eliminated, then a good cleaning with Sweet's 7.62 or Barnes CR10 should bring your accuracy back. Do not leave these solvents in your barrel for over 20 mins at a time. They attack copper aggressively, but are not suitable for an overnight soak. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Plug the muzzle of your gun and fill barrel with household ammonia. Let sit for 5-10 mins and pull plug. Rinse with warm water and then clean as usual. All the copper "foul outs" are ammonia based and not as strong as household ammonia. Your cleaning patches will come out blue-green which is the copper itself. Before you store your gun after this cleaning, run an oiled patch through your barrel then store. I hope this helps,

-Jason
 
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1shot said:
I'm sure that fouling is the problem here as the rifle performed well from new and accuracy has fallen off- with less than 500 rounds fired. Everything else is double checked and good from scope and mount security, stock/action torque etc.
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Has the rifle been bedded or is it out of the box?
Take the action out of the stock and make sure the action and stock are bone dry. Any little bit of oil in there will cause a rifle to shoot like lightening(never hit the same place twice).:eek:
I have a 40X that is notoriuos for this problem.
 
I've never had any fouling issues in my savage...

Some barrels foul more then others even if they are the same rifle.
Try some Sweet's 7.62 to get the copper out.
Or try some JB paste.
I think cleaning is over-rated, unless you have a fouling problem.
With that said, I shoot Moly coated bullets and will only clean when the groups open up. I went over 900 rounds last time and should not have cleaned when I did.
Click to expand...

Strongly agree. Good advice, minus the JB
 
my savage also leaves copper galore in it and i agree with the sweets and barnes but the best i have found yet is to get remington bore cleaner(looks like grey milk) and use this on a bore brush back and forth about 20 strokes and use normal solvent to clean out! looks very black on the patches but works very well!
 
Well, I am blessed to have a very fine barrel on my Stevens 200 in 300 Win Mag. I have yet to clean any copper out of it. It just doesn't metal foul at all.

I have shown it to River Rat a few times, and even after shooting ten rounds of 200 gr Barnes X, it still shows no copper. We were at the range last night and it still just keeps putting them in there.

All I do is swab the bore once with some Kroil and put it away. Same for my 223 Ackley Stevens 200.

Ted
 
I just put 20 rds through my new stevens 200 .308. (my other Savage is a 22-250 BVSS) There was minimal fouling, one application of Shooters Choice took it all out. It was minor enough that I probably could've gotten away without cleaning it for another box or so
 
So last night I went into Shooters choice Waterloo and spoke with "Mike" who was very helpful. He sold me shooterschoice (no brand relation) copper remover and told me to watch out as this is the most aggressive on the market- so no longer than 10 mins in the bore..
All kinds of copper came out, it was awful in there! The hoppes Benchrest just did not work in my Savage, must be very rough copper magnet bores- yet everyone raves about accuracy as did I when it was clean from new.. Wonder if there's any way to polish this barrel, flitz maybe? Ah well...

Hoping for a decent result after another round of cleaning tonight.
 
I had the same problem last weekend with my stevens. I ended up having the gunsmith take a look and then he used shooters choice and a bore mop. If you brush the bore with the mop soaked in the solvent for about five minutes and then let sit for another fifteen it should come right out with a few clean patches.
 
Finally got to the range after removing the copper build up, and with handloads managed between 5/8 - 3/8" at 100yds again.

Thanks for the help. :)

1Shot.
 
Don't overclean the barell, but do just emough to keep it clean and eventually the bore will get polished up and not foul so badly. If you don't clean it, the metal fouling builds up with each succesive shot, rather than the bore being burnished.

Ted
 
1shot said:
Finally got to the range after removing the copper build up, and with handloads managed between 5/8 - 3/8" at 100yds again.

Thanks for the help. :)

1Shot.
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A pretty knowledgable gunsmith, Micky Coleman, suggested a trick that most target shooters find unthinkable, however one that I did religously and successfully last year on my .243 Savage. Most factory barrels Savages included come from the factory with extremely rough bores, which collect copper quickly. It is the copper fouling that causes the rapid deterioration of accurracy. if you want to reduce the copper fouling you must polish the bore. what Mickey suggested was taking some strands of fine steel wool and wrapping them arround the grooves of a brass cleaning brush. What you are doing is filling in the hollow grooves with fine steel wool.
then you coat the brush in JB Bore cleaner, and run it up the barrel about 15 times. You do this every 100 rounds.
Dont do this on a custom lapped barrel, It will not help. But on a rough factory barrel it does work, and last year my .243 had almost 1800 rds shot thru it, more than enough to dispel the naysayers wivestales.
 
If this was my rifle I would either:

Fire lap it.

Clean several times with Shooters Choice or Sweets and then take it to the range for a break in session. 1 shot and clean for about 20 shots or until the one shot did not leave a lot of fouling. This rifle will improve if broken in.
 
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