Savage/Remington bolt smoothness

[curseyou]

Frustrated with the steep decline in bolt smoothness on my Savage 10 FCPHS compared to a stable of Rem700's I noticed something I thought worth sharing.

While working the action on the savage empty it is pretty smooth. Loaded with dummy rounds, it becomes much less smooth. When I work the bolt handle as normal it is rough and requires a stupid amount of force. If I work the bolt where the forward motion to chamber a round gets pushed forward by the base of my palm against the boltbody everything goes surprisingly smoothly.

I compared palm on bolt vs hand on handle on the savage and again on the 700 and what I found was that the 700 bolt can stick everybit as much as the sav with a tiny bit of sideways pressure.

The conclusion I draw is that the savage bolt handle is too long and is the primary cause of the rough bolt handle because the added length torques the bolt inside the channel. Equally the rem gets its bolt smoothness from the small short stubby bolt handle because it is harder to torque the bolt in the raceway.

The solution seems to me to be to take the Savage tactical style bolt handles but to have only a short stub stub of the handle grip stick out with virtually no handle. Shorter the better.

Anyone else find this? Anyone try a stubby bolt handle themselves?

 

[madashell]

Shorten your bolt handle ? That's not only sacrilege , it's not what the Kool kids do !

I notice the same on 700 & 600's. Even with big/heavy/longer Badger bolt knobs I find it's just a matter of technique and never really have an issue.

 

[whb2003]

I have a rem 700 and detached 10 round mag...my baby runs very SMOOTH on every feeding.
While I have Styer SSG 69 rifle and it runs not as smooth as my rem but it over all runs very well, NO NEED TO PUSH HARD
Hope it give you some references

 

[Mystic Precision]

When you push the bolt handle into the 1 to 2oclock position while pushing forward, many actions will feel very stiff. This is BOLT BIND. Why you hear various actions spec including "anti bind" features. In general, this is a slot or notch in the bolt which runs along a guide rib in the action. This forces the bolt head to not tilt thus making it run straighter down the raceway... reduces or eliminates bolt bind... at least, that is the theory.

Unfortunately, with current QC being what it is, some actions don't receive the TLC to ensure this anti bind actually works. Careful smoothing and stoning to remove the machine marks and sharp edges will go a long ways to reduce this from happening. Some lube in the anti bind notch, is very important so things can glide over each other.

The Savage bolt is far less inclined to bind due to the floating bolt head. I suspect that the parts are simply rough so things are hanging up. I have several Savage SA (older actions mind you) and with a little TLC, run very smooth and fast. Because the bolt head can wiggle, even when pushing the bolt handle "into the corners" my actions dont bind.

The clunky rough bolt lift... again, more QC issues. That is why years back gunsmiths and companies worked on bolt lift kits and proper timing to get rid of this. Really not sure why Savage made the parts so goofy in the first place but again, the right parts and TLC and bolt lift can be far smoother and lighter. Now this may not work with current gen actions and their cocking bolt indicator but things can be improved upon.

I can certainly help with improving bolt timing on older Savages.

These are some of the areas custom actions improve to make the cycling much smoother and nicer. Yes, you are paying for addn care and attention, and in some cases, better design but don't assume that all custom actions are void of issues.

Jerry

 

[curseyou]

I get what you are saying. I'm still amazed that with a little sideways pressure the rem 700 binds just like the savage. They are the same if you apply a little sideways pressure, or equally as slick if you push by palming the centre of the bolt.

So I ask myself why does the savage have the twisty motion with a default handling and the rem doesn't? The bolt handle length on the savage is significantly longer. Longer meaning it is a better lever to torque the bolt sideways within the receiver. I always wondered why remington made the handles so short.

I wish I was a machinest. I would stubbify my own for science.

 

[peacefrog]

My friend and I both shoot savages. Model 10 actions. He found in his the magazine spring was putting too much upward pressure on the rounds and subsequently the bolt. He zip tied one coil of spring in the mag, and problem solved. I took some time with mine and smoothed out some "rough" areas, use some grease or lube where necessary (camming locations), tried a bolt lift kit with mixed results. It's not anything like a Custom action, but it's pretty smooth. We also have several thousand rounds on these actions.

A little TLC and 2000 grit sandpaper, 0000 steel wool, you know, gentle and take your time...
YMMV

 

[curseyou]

I'm going to try working the bolt while watching a movie with some jewelers rouge. I've just trimmed the .357 case and I'm waiting on the 5/32 bearing for the diy bolt lift kit. I've polished the bolt, already.

We'll see.

Edit. Too bad savage doesn't make the rear portion of the action that does most of the bolt holding/friction/binding, something like this. Imagine what a joy that would be.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Fix the antibind notch in the bolt head and the rail it runs on... smooth and get rid of the machine marks/rough spots. It will run smoothly.

That linear bearing would fill up with dirt and stop working.

Jerry

 

[curseyou]

Update: The DIY bolt lift with a 5/32 ball bearing in a .357 case. It worked really well. No exaggeration took half the bolt lift effort out. Good trick.

Polished internals and friction points and the entire bolt body + feedramp then worked the action for the length of the movie shooter. Then cleaned and lubed with thin moly EP grease. The bolt looks like shate because it is down to bare metal in most friction spots, but the action is vastly improved. Surprisingly better. Well worth the time and effort.

This might become my favourite rifle.

 

[MrStudz]

Update: The DIY bolt lift with a 5/32 ball bearing in a .357 case. It worked really well. No exaggeration took half the bolt lift effort out. Good trick.

Polished internals and friction points and the entire bolt body + feedramp then worked the action for the length of the movie shooter. Then cleaned and lubed with thin moly EP grease. The bolt looks like shate because it is down to bare metal in most friction spots, but the action is vastly improved. Surprisingly better. Well worth the time and effort.

This might become my favourite rifle.

Woukd be cool to see some pics, i have a couple savages and was thinking about doing this mod, but personally my actions are slick as glass i haven't felt the need yet.