Savage Rifle Build Results

Meph

Regular
Rating - 100%
41   0   0
So after a lot of help from Mystic Precision, my rifle is now operational.

http://1.bp.########.com/-Ev9lQn0Nx3A/TekkEqGaWUI/AAAAAAAAAWo/I6qYdyjDAiM/s1600/2.jpg

I had an old savage 110 hunting rifle, and I didn't really need a hunting .300 Win Mag, but I wanted a long distance paper puncher with a good bite to it. I find recoil very fun, to be honest. Makes it that much more satisfying.

I ordered a Choates varmint stock from Choates Machine and Tool, a Shilen match grade stainless 30" barrel, 1 in 10 twist, bull contour (S8). Ordered a Timney target trigger, Farell 20MOA steel bases, Burris 30mm ZEE rings and shims. The action was timed and bedded to the stock, all put together by Mr. Teo. The scope is one of the sweet Sightron SIII LR MOA 8-32x56 and it is just awesome in every way.

Amazing stuff, for my first true custom rifle.

So I started handloading for her a while ago, using once fired Federal brass, Retumbo powder and matrix 210gr bullets with CCI large rifle magnum primers. I encountered a few issues with my first bout with a reloading press.

First, I was not used to compressing powder, and being slightly weary of it, I halted and did my research. It turns out this powder works better when compressed. My doubts cleared, I carefully weighed every powder charge, trimmed my brass, chamfered the case mouths, lightly lubing the cases, doing everything the same way for every round.

Then I found that the Matrix 210gr VLDs had some minute inconsistencies in the hollow point, a result of their manufacture. Each bullet was + or - as much as 0.01" in length, due to the very tip being slightly irregular. It meant I just had to trust the micro-adjustment seating die, as measuring OAL to find if all the bullets are seated the same was useless.

There was also some playing around with overall length, as the long VLDs didn't like being seated to the cartridge's listed OAL.

After working out those issues I also noticed that the ogive shape of the Matrix VLDs didn't play nicely with the bullet seater, as it touched only at a small portion of the die. A ring can be seen halfway up the bullet's ogive, a single contact point on the entire bullet. That means there could be inconsistent seating depths and bullet runout, and the seating depth was impossible to find due to inconsistent bullet lengths.

Runout was another issue. My single fired brass had been fired from my old barrel and chamber, and there was no way in hell it fit my Shilen's perfectly cut, minimum dimension chamber. Even some factory ammo didn't fit in that chamber! Having it full length resized was mandatory just for the brass to fit in the chamber but it made the runout exceed 10 thou.

All that aside, 80.6 grains of retumbo fired this group at 200 yards.



You have to admit, a half inch group at 200 yards ain't too shabby. Yes, I need to do 5 shot strings, but I didn't have the brass, bullets or powder to afford a full 5 shot load development, and I'm about to load 5 shot strings from 80.2 to 80.8 with .1 grain increments to fine tune this.

On top of that, my second-fire brass has now zero runout, being fire formed to the match chamber. When I say zero, I mean it in it has less than 0.0002" runout (two ten-thousandths at most) so I can only see the accuracy increasing. I expect 5 to 10 shot strings to fall well under half MOA.

This is a short video of sighting in the scope and chronying the factory loads that would fit into the chamber.

[youtube]QFokD0fe0ts[/youtube]

That's again to Mr. Teo for all his help and service, I'll update when I get more range time with this baby. The rifle refuses to fire over 1.75" groups at 200 yards with even the handloads it dislikes the most, and just didn't want to fire over 1.5" groups at 100 yards with even the cheapest factory ammo of mixed bullet grains.

I think she's a shooter.
 
Very nice. I like the pic with the orange muzzle crown protector still on it. I just got my Shilen barrel in 338 EDGE from Jerry. It's at the smith getting a brake put on. I'm just waiting for the Mcmillan stock to arrive any day now. I hope mine shoots as good as yours!
Enjoy.
 
Then I found that the Matrix 210gr VLDs had some minute inconsistencies in the hollow point, a result of their manufacture. Each bullet was + or - as much as 0.01" in length, due to the very tip being slightly irregular. It meant I just had to trust the micro-adjustment seating die, as measuring OAL to find if all the bullets are seated the same was useless.
.

You should use a comparator and measure on the ogive. But you got great results anyway. :)

Did you order the choate direct?
 
I am so happy it has all worked out well for you. Looks like you have the makings of a superb Shooter.

When you get the rifle dialed in, send me some pics and quick bio of the rifle/load and what you did. Be happy to put it up on my website for others to share.

Enjoy...

Jerry
 
If anyone's curious, the velocity on the 210gr VLD with 80.6gr of Retumbo was 3117, 3118 and 3113. No pressure signs, and I'm under max listed by Hodgdons for a heavier bullet seated deeper into the case... You can imagine my smile.

My ballistic computer then tells me I can make the trip to 1000 yards in exactly 22 MOA. Rainbow trajectory it ain't.

I then had a great big laugh when that was actually exceeding the data on a box of factory 300 RUM. (200gr at 3070). :eek:



Very nice. I like the pic with the orange muzzle crown protector still on it. I just got my Shilen barrel in 338 EDGE from Jerry. It's at the smith getting a brake put on. I'm just waiting for the Mcmillan stock to arrive any day now. I hope mine shoots as good as yours!
Enjoy.

That crown protector makes me chuckle, I feel like I own an airsoft rifle... That has 4500ft/lbs of energy. .338 Edge is one hell of a caliber, I'm jealous! I have no doubts that your rifle will be able to take off the staples that are holding up your buddy's target (hilarity ensues).

You should use a comparator and measure on the ogive. But you got great results anyway. :)

Did you order the choate direct?

I ordered it through Prophet River. Pretty much I called up Choates, Visa by phone for the stock and shipping to Prophet River's sister company in the states, then paid Prophet River's shipping to my house. In all, came up to about 200$ CAN or so shipped. Worth it, I love the stock. I'm a million times more comfortable with pistol grip style stocks and it's made real sturdy.

I think I can do that. I machined and ground a V-block, I have a test dial indicator and I could set up a stop for the back end and I could run them over to see if the ogive is landing at different spots.

The Matrix 210gr bullets had excellent weight and diameter consistency (within 0.0001" throughout the lot and within 0.1 grains of the dozen or so I weighed), and I'm sure they're of the same length if measured along the ogive. I understand that in a production run, a small burr along the meplat is pretty much too little a detail to bother stopping all the presses for.

The only real issue I'm seeing is the bullet seating die I'm using. I have to phone or message Forster about it, I think the low drag ogive doesn't play well with that seater die.

When measuring the bullets' lengths individually and sorting them, I was able to confirm a more consistent seating depth, but it was a bit of work... At the time it was 3am so I wasn't in the mood to measure every bullet.

Great shooting man! Get er running out at 300m to see the story emerge. Enjoy....

I might very well have to finish fine tuning the load at 300m! I bet once I get everything perfect she'll be making ragged holes out pretty far.

I am so happy it has all worked out well for you. Looks like you have the makings of a superb Shooter.

When you get the rifle dialed in, send me some pics and quick bio of the rifle/load and what you did. Be happy to put it up on my website for others to share.

Enjoy...

Jerry

I'll do a nice little write up with pictures and even a little video just for you as soon as I can. Might be a little while though, I'll be sure to PM you when it's up. You bet I'll be enjoying this beauty :D
 
Then I found that the Matrix 210gr VLDs had some minute inconsistencies in the hollow point, a result of their manufacture. Each bullet was + or - as much as 0.01" in length, due to the very tip being slightly irregular. It meant I just had to trust the micro-adjustment seating die, as measuring OAL to find if all the bullets are seated the same was useless.

You obviously have not measured Sierra bullets, the base to tip inconsistencies in Sierra's, I have found, can be up to .015. A base to tip variance of only .001 is superb. As stated use a comparator, not the tip of the bullet to check your rounds. Measuring base to tip on bullets is a complete waste of time and could be better spent polishing the inside of your cases. :D

Use the tip for your initial dummy round but use the comparator to see what that measurement is to compare your loaded rounds to the dummy round.


There was also some playing around with overall length, as the long VLDs didn't like being seated to the cartridge's listed OAL.

Taylor seating depth to YOUR rifle, not the test rifle used to write a book. Find your "At the lands" seating depth and adjust in/out from there or your max magazine length (if using a magazine).

After working out those issues I also noticed that the ogive shape of the Matrix VLDs didn't play nicely with the bullet seater, as it touched only at a small portion of the die. A ring can be seen halfway up the bullet's ogive, a single contact point on the entire bullet. That means there could be inconsistent seating depths and bullet runout, and the seating depth was impossible to find due to inconsistent bullet lengths.

This is normal for all seaters as they do not rest directly on the ogive of the bullet, it will be somewhere about 1/2 way from tip to the ogive. It does not hug the entire bullet but makes contact in one place 360 degrees around the bullet. This is actually a good sign that the tip of the bullet is not contacting the end of the die first which is sometimes a problem with VLD bullets.

Again, get a comparator, they are cheap to buy and an invaluable tool.

They will measure the round at the same place on the bullet, similar to your seating die stem but not right on the area of the bullet that contacts the lands.
 
You obviously have not measured Sierra bullets, the base to tip inconsistencies in Sierra's, I have found, can be up to .015. A base to tip variance of only .001 is superb.

I'm a big fan of Sierras, if only because I have found them easier to tune than some of the other makes I have tried. However I was measuring 190 smks last night and was dissapointed as there was some real differences when measuring even at the ogive.
 
You obviously have not measured Sierra bullets, the base to tip inconsistencies in Sierra's, I have found, can be up to .015. A base to tip variance of only .001 is superb. As stated use a comparator, not the tip of the bullet to check your rounds. Measuring base to tip on bullets is a complete waste of time and could be better spent polishing the inside of your cases. :D

Use the tip for your initial dummy round but use the comparator to see what that measurement is to compare your loaded rounds to the dummy round.


Ummm you must have read wrong. I said 0.01, not 0.001 for base to tip.


Taylor seating depth to YOUR rifle, not the test rifle used to write a book. Find your "At the lands" seating depth and adjust in/out from there or your max magazine length (if using a magazine).

Yeah, that's what I did afterwards. Seated over .2" (two hundred thou, not two thou) over listed length.

This is normal for all seaters as they do not rest directly on the ogive of the bullet, it will be somewhere about 1/2 way from tip to the ogive. It does not hug the entire bullet but makes contact in one place 360 degrees around the bullet. This is actually a good sign that the tip of the bullet is not contacting the end of the die first which is sometimes a problem with VLD bullets.

Again, get a comparator, they are cheap to buy and an invaluable tool.

They will measure the round at the same place on the bullet, similar to your seating die stem but not right on the area of the bullet that contacts the lands.

That's good and all, but the die was actually pulling the bullet out of the case a few times. It seemed that the spot of contact was meeting up with the inside of the die in such a way that it seized it like a morse taper. I didn't think that was very conductive to accurate bullet placement in the case.
 
I did read wrong. The tip of the bullet (IMO) is the least important as the wave around the bullet negates any influence of the tip itself.

.010 is still pretty good tolerance, if the tip is important to you, get your self a meplat trimmer and pointing dies and see if it makes a difference in accuracy.

Knowing Marshall personally and talking to him about pointing his bullets, he said that he can see no difference between his bullets pointed or not pointed. Others will have a different opinion on the matter.

Shooting one of my best ever groups at 300m with sierra bullets that I had tumbled in walnut shell and a good number of the bullets actually had bits of media stuck in the meplat proved to me that the tip of the bullet does not have as much bearing on the bullet flight as the rest of the bullet does.
 
As for the seater pulling the bullet from the case, you might well need to contact Forster and get them to send you a seater stem designed for the VLD bullets. I know I got a new stem from Redding for my 223 dies as the 75gr Amax would bottom out in the stem
 
I'm a big fan of Sierras, if only because I have found them easier to tune than some of the other makes I have tried. However I was measuring 190 smks last night and was dissapointed as there was some real differences when measuring even at the ogive.

Yeah, I sorted some 80gn SMK's awhile back and had an ES of .015" from base to ogive...I wasn't too thrilled...

I found it wierd to, but oddly enough, the base/boat tail has more of an effect on bullet travel then the tip does. Of course to a certain extent.. Pointing has already proven to increase BC thus improving trajectory and drift, so the tip does matter, as does everything else, but, the base/boat tail seems to be the pilot if something is askew with it.
 
I would say that the "fish mouth" on the ogive is aesthetically unacceptable and am always eager to replace the lot (warranty ) you must measure the bearing surface and mominal demensions to see their real values.
that fish mouth can be a bonus though.. if you point ( warranty void) no need to trim, just point and you have what looks like a fmj.
good shooting btw. Marshal
 
Pointing at best will add 2% on the BC, it can however upset the ogive resulting in erratic bearing surfaces, it's one of those to each thier own.

yes the base of the bullet is as important as the crown & will toss a bullet faster than a bent tip.

Marshal

Yeah, I sorted some 80gn SMK's awhile back and had an ES of .015" from base to ogive...I wasn't too thrilled...

I found it wierd to, but oddly enough, the base/boat tail has more of an effect on bullet travel then the tip does. Of course to a certain extent.. Pointing has already proven to increase BC thus improving trajectory and drift, so the tip does matter, as does everything else, but, the base/boat tail seems to be the pilot if something is askew with it.
 
Not according to John Whidden. With the smaller cal's and his newest dies, he claims 6-8% increase is obtainable. The larger caliber the bullet, the less gain you will see from pointing or pointing and trimming.
 
Not according to John Whidden. With the smaller cal's and his newest dies, he claims 6-8% increase is obtainable. The larger caliber the bullet, the less gain you will see from pointing or pointing and trimming.

I also get stuff in my email inbox stating that, if I pay X amount of dollars, they will send me pills that are guaranteed to make my Winky 6-8% bigger.

The truth is in the application, not the sales pitch.
 
I also get stuff in my email inbox stating that, if I pay X amount of dollars, they will send me pills that are guaranteed to make my Winky 6-8% bigger.

The truth is in the application, not the sales pitch.

Not trying to insult anyone's knowledge here, just passing on the info. Also, I re-read the page and that part was actually written by Bryan Litz who helped design the new die inserts, not John. I am not a bullet maker or ballistician, but I do believe Bryan knows what he is talking about.

Regardless, this is a little off topic, so, nice rifle and hope it serves you well. My Shilen select match barrel is working very well for me so far. It cleans very easily and doesn't seem to need to be fouled afterward, very consistent.
 
Back
Top Bottom