In my home town we have a Vickers type machine gun on display out side. It is cemented in place and has been neglected for many years. There has been some talk about some preservation work being done to it. The one main concern is rust control. I was wondering if parkerizing would be a good way to start after sand blast?
Saving a neglected WWI machine gun!
- Thread starter Riven
- Start date
Zero rust primer is what your looking for. I have used it for years on hard use guns. This is a high quality matte black primer that is supposed to take 3600 hours of salt spray exposure. If it's scratched only the scratch can rust. The paint will not allow the rust to spread beyond that point. Easy to touch up. Comes in rattle cans and larger quantities.
If your community still has a firearm at their cenotaph or Legion you are lucky. They have all disappeared in AB.
Good luck on your project. I would love to se pictures.
If your community still has a firearm at their cenotaph or Legion you are lucky. They have all disappeared in AB.
Good luck on your project. I would love to se pictures.
There's stuff like that all over everywhere. Vickers MG's(Halliburton), anti-air .50 BMG mounts(one of those outside the Legion in Wilberforce. I think it was. ), Oerlikons and Bofors guns. 08-15's too. The small stuff went to small places that couldn't afford a spot or didn't have a big enough spot for a tank or other big stuff.
No parkerizing. Remove the rust with a brass wire brush in a drill(eye protection is mandatory) and repaint. It's very likely just a shell with no innards anyway.
No parkerizing. Remove the rust with a brass wire brush in a drill(eye protection is mandatory) and repaint. It's very likely just a shell with no innards anyway.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Congratulations on being given the opportunity to preserve a piece of town history. Assuming the chemicals in the concrete haven't eaten more of the steel than salt and acid rain exposure, you should be OK.
Contact the Canadian War Museum's conservation department. Yes, there were many hundreds (thousands) of these taken as trophies and given to grateful and grieving communities. But this one is Burks Fall's only example, and thank you very much, it is the one you have to work with.
They will be able to suggest derusting or rust encapsulation techniques, as well as ways to stop further deterioration. Don't do anything mechanical to the piece until you are convinced that there are no chemical options.
Personally, I'd use a reverse electrolysis method to push the rust particles off the steel before trying to break them off with a wire brush or such. The vehicle restorers face similar problems with rusted and ignored tank parts. Raw molasses baths are one go-slow approach which looks better than many.
When you get it stabilized, be mindful of conservators' expert (ie school trained and employed in the field). If they recommend you dunk it in hot beeswax or something to keep the air away, maybe they do know what they are talking about versus lots of earnest amateurs. But then again, WWI was fought by amateurs who learned to win wars the long and hard way.
Contact the Canadian War Museum's conservation department. Yes, there were many hundreds (thousands) of these taken as trophies and given to grateful and grieving communities. But this one is Burks Fall's only example, and thank you very much, it is the one you have to work with.
They will be able to suggest derusting or rust encapsulation techniques, as well as ways to stop further deterioration. Don't do anything mechanical to the piece until you are convinced that there are no chemical options.
Personally, I'd use a reverse electrolysis method to push the rust particles off the steel before trying to break them off with a wire brush or such. The vehicle restorers face similar problems with rusted and ignored tank parts. Raw molasses baths are one go-slow approach which looks better than many.
When you get it stabilized, be mindful of conservators' expert (ie school trained and employed in the field). If they recommend you dunk it in hot beeswax or something to keep the air away, maybe they do know what they are talking about versus lots of earnest amateurs. But then again, WWI was fought by amateurs who learned to win wars the long and hard way.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
@Riven
Free conservation tips and recommendations from the professionals.
General index page
http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/resources-ressources/index-eng.aspx
Rust removal on ferrous metals (hmm? firearms)
http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/resources-ressources/ccinotesicc/9-8-eng.aspx
Free conservation tips and recommendations from the professionals.
General index page
http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/resources-ressources/index-eng.aspx
Rust removal on ferrous metals (hmm? firearms)
http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/resources-ressources/ccinotesicc/9-8-eng.aspx
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
These are the guns in Haliburton:
Inside the Legion:
Inside the Legion:
Outside at the Cenotaph:
Inside the Legion:
Inside the Legion:
Outside at the Cenotaph:
A brass brush will not remove rust, but it will leave a nice deposit of brass, if that's what someone wants.
For something like these guns, left outside uncovered for decades, electrolytic rust removal or glass beading at low air pressure are about the only options IMO. To be properly conserved for continued outdoor display, they will need to be completely disassembled and refinished. Parkerizing would be a good idea, but only under paint
Disassembly will take time, tools and patience, as well as good information on how they are put together. You need to know what comes off where and how, not try and figure it out as you go along.
Get the worst of the crud off with paint stripper, oven cleaner or a caustic soda bath. Pressure wash the residues off, preferably with hot water, then dry thoroughly with a tiger torch to get moisture out of the nooks and crannies, otherwise you just help the rust to continue. Next it could be the electrolysis or glass bead stage. After that hot pressure wash again, dry with heat again and apply the penetrating oil and leave it for a few weeks at least, with repeated applications. The piece has to be totally dry first otherwise the moisture left in the nooks & crannies will inhibit the ingress of the penetrating oil. Don't soak it in diesel fuel; the stuff is a PITA to get rid of.
A blind-cleaner size ultrasonic cleaner could be useful in the early stages.
Don't use vinegar or any rust removal chemicals for hours or days as they will etch the surface and will attack impurities in the steel causing pitting, other than the rust pitting. Vinegar does a great job of converting rust, but this is the downside if used too long. Ask me how I know!
Careful use of heat from a torch might be necessary at times, but no heating things to even dull red. Much less heat than that will destroy the temper of steel, so if a torch is resorted to, that is is a given, which may or not be considered acceptable "curatorially".
There may be the remains of WWI markings such as "Captured by..." under the finish so a careful and gradual removal of any paint on the water jacket or other large surfaces would be wise.
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