Schmidt & Bender

Aimtac

New member
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
i am looking for any comments or reviews on the Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman 2.

also, wondering how much is it and where can i get it?

Thanks!!
 
Wolverine Supplies carries them. They are a contributing dealer on the site here. Schmidt Bender optics a second to none. If the price does not scare you off they are bar none the best scope I've put my eyes to.
 
Aimtac said:
i am looking for any comments or reviews on the Schmidt & Bender 1.1-4X 20 CQB Short Dot Police Marksman 2.

also, wondering how much is it and where can i get it?

Thanks!!

This was posted in the Black Rifle Optics "Sticky" at the top of the Forum.

Originally Posted by Larry Vickers
At the request of my friend Dave Pennington I am filling in the blanks on the history and development of the Schmidt & Bender CQB Short Dot 1.1 - 4 x 20 scope. I hope this answers some questions about the details of this optic.

A need for a milspec low powered variable optic came up after Somalia in 1993. Bad guys mixed with civilians were sticking their heads around corners 100 meters or farther down an alley or street in order to gain SA on the whereabouts of US forces operating in that area. The Aimpoint setup being used at that time did not provide any ability for target discrimination. This was a real problem for those GI's posted outside for external target security.

A market search was done and at that time the closest thing that could be found was a scope called a microdot ; a 1.5 - 4 powered optic that had a red dot like a reflex sight. These were used for quite awhile and served well considering they were a scope made for civilian non milspec activities; sport shooting, hunting, etc. Shortly after these were fielded a major US scope company was approached about making a more milspec 1 - 3 or 1 - 4 powered optic with a red dot capablility. This particular company makes milspec scopes but was (and still is) primarily a hunting/sporting scope company that has historically put little effort into the military/LE side of things - and was way behind the power curve on illuminated reticles or dots in scopes. After a couple years a prototype was seen that had alot of promise but still no red dot. It had other features also that were not applicable and after some T&E it went back to the factory with a list of things to change/enhance.

A few more years pass with no sign of a gen II version when a phone call is received saying the scope is ready with good news and bad news; They are in production and can be received ASAP but you take what you get - no changes. This was not received well as the concept of this scope was brought to the attention of this company and it was finalized with no further input except for a T&E prototype years before. Once the final production sample showed up and was virtually the same as the prototype, flaws and all, except with a poorly executed illuminated reticle/dot, the die was cast - other vendors were going to be solicited for product. To say we were disappointed in this scope would be an understatement.

All the major scope makers were approached with none being interested in helping us except for Schmidt & Bender. I had a S&B scope, knew of their reputation, and had heard they were very responsive to user needs. I also knew they made a scope called a 1.25 - 4 x 20 flashdot. After meeting with the CEO Hans Bender we decided the best approach was to modify the flashdot to suit our needs. A list of specs was draw up by me and presented to Hans. They were;

1) 1 - 4 x 20

2) external adjustments in 1/2 moa elevation and windage

3) BDC cams for green tip, 75 gr Hornady, and M118LR for 16 and 20 inch barrel SR 25's

4) Detents between the red dot brightness adjustments to allow the user to place the dot off between settings

5) Make the first few settings for NVG use then day light use for the settings after that

6) Shorten the scope as much as possible

7) Install the then new Zenith short throw variable power ring

8) keep the dot size of the flashdot - approx 5.5 moa

In a little over 1 month S&B had a prototype ready for me that was approx 80% of the gen I short dot we know today. Additional testing and refinement occurred and approx 1 year after my initial contact with S&B a contract was let for several hundred gen I CQB short dot scopes as it was now called. The final specs were as above with the following tweaks;

1) the first 6 settings are for NVG use

2) a 6-8 hr battery shut off

3) A 'skeletonized' mil dot reticle which means on 4 power it can be used as a typical mildot reticle but on 1.1 power it will virtually disappear allowing the eye to pick up the dot quicker. The downside to this is with no red dot on it can be hard to see on 1.1 power.

The minimum power setting was 1.1 due to the fact that the original flashdot was designed to be a 1.25 power - when you made it a 1 power it actually had a slight ghost image (the inside of the tube at the objective end) when your eye got closer than normal for proper eye relief. 1.1 power made this go away with very little to no difference for up close reflex work. Also it is worthy to note that the reticle is in the first focal plane which means it grows in direct proportion to the target; in the real world this means you can mil dot at any power setting. Also it means your zero cannot shift during magnification as the reticle is not moving. Despite what anyone else may tell you I believe this is critical for a milspec variable powered optic. Of equal note, the Short Dot is also extremely forgiving in the areas of eye relief and eye positioning compared to other magnified optics.

The Gen II Short Dot came about when some users complained about accidently turning the external adjustment knobs during vigorous activities. In hind sight I wish I would have had the gen I prototype made with a feature S&B offers for their hunting scopes; a low profile windage adjustment cover that houses a spare battery. The external click adjustments would go away but to me thay are not a must have and a spare battery would be better. This may have prevented the gen II development also as the windage adjustment is much more prone to accidental adjustment. Live and learn.

The gen II Short Dot has only 2 BDC's - green tip and M118LR. The knobs are larger also. The key difference is they are spring loaded and are locked into position when in the 'down' position and in order to adjust them you pull up all the way and adjust - release and they will spring back into the locked position. Very slick.

The end result is a scope that is without peer on the market today. It is rather large and heavy (particularly compared to an Aimpoint) but offers features no other scope has; as far as I know the NVG intensity adjustments, the auto battery shut off and the new gen II locking turrets are found no other scope on the market. Another very unique feature that end users like is the intensity adjustments and the ability to turn 'off' the dot with one click, and turn the dot 'on' to your preferred intensity with one click. Dispite the integration of cutting edge technology for a scope, problems have been very few (we all know about man made items) and S&B is very responsive when a problem arises.

What I find is if someone has the scope on their rifle they love it; they have committed to it and have decided the features it provides are ones that appeal to them and their needs. If there is a better general purpose rifle optic in the world today I don't know what it is.

I will close this out plugging Schmidt & Bender and Larue Tactical. I now have 5 S&B scopes with a 6th on the way. In my opinion Schmidt & Bender makes the absolute best scopes that money can buy. PERIOD. No scope company is more responsive to user needs and the quality of the optics and execution is superb. They are very simply the finest. They are not cheap but the best never is; you get what you pay for. Experience has taught me there are very few exceptions to that rule; even less than most people think.

Mark Larue is a friend of mine and as we know his mounts have completely taken over the tactical market - he was the first on the market with a mount for the S&B short dot and after a couple minor tweaks his mount is THE way to go not only on the short dot but on any other combat optic. Larue gets my vote - his stuff is top of the line.

I hope this clarifys some things reference the short dot. Enjoy.

Cheers

Larry Vickers

KevinB has the S&B short dot and swears by it.

They are VERY pricey, but S&B optics are top notch and perhaps the best on the market.

I have a S&B 5 - 25 X 56mm PM-II Illum. P4 reticle scope and it is FANTASTIC!!!!!!:dancingbanana: :D

If you don't want to spend the $2500.00 on the S&B, have a look at the Leupold 1.5 X 5 M/RT with the Illum. SPR reticle.I have one on my Service rifle and like it a lot. It runs around the $1200.00 Cdn. mark.

SKBY.
 
S & B are reputed to be the only manufacturer who makes their own lenses, uses no one else's, and doesn't make them for anyone else. This may be hype or it may be outdated info, but is says a bit about the Co.product.
 
reputed to be the only manufacturer who makes their own lenses
... looks like they make their own lenses (according to their site.."At Schmidt & Bender, we are so concerned about the quality of our glass, that several years ago we purchased the optical company that for decades has made our lenses, thus ensuring consistent, accurate quality of all our glass"....)

Not sure if that means they polish and coat or simply assemble the elements..
fwiw .. I think Zeiss ....and therefore Hensoldt make their own lenses from the glass melt through mounting. And Swarovski (and therefore Kahles) certainly polishes and coats their own lenses.

In any event S&B are pretty darn good scopes I think based on experience with a fixed 12x S&B with post reticle I have used
 
Back
Top Bottom