School me on primer adaptors for muzzleloading

[jjohnwm]

Title says it. What's the deal with Variflame adaptors or similar products? Google searches leads me to numerous threads on numerous forums, many or most of which are discussing custom machining of breech plugs, or simply buying aftermarket breech plugs, which allow the use of those handy dandy little adaptors that contain Small Rifle primers. I have also found some ads that sell a kit containing a handful of the small re-usable adaptors along with a couple of simple hand tools that you use to prime and de-prime them.

I understand the supposed benefits of using the smaller, less-powerful primer vs the 209 primer, but what about the breech plugs? Some of the packaging for these gizmos claim that the little kit "instantly" allows you to start using SR primers. If that's the case, why would anybody perform expensive and non-reversible modifications to the breech plug? I have a Knight RB7 which I quite like, and finally found a factory-original replacement breech plug for it after much searching. I'd love to try the SR primer idea, but there is no way I want to risk messing up either of my two breech plugs. I want...or at least I think I want?...to get some adaptors that can be pre-loaded with primers, then simply inserted into the standard 200-primer-pocket in a factory breech plug...but it seems to me that they would be impossibly thin-walled to work that way...or not?

Some of the articles reference adaptors made of stainless steel...others talk about pure brass adaptors...and many of them also discuss using an O-ring under the primer to minimize external fouling. Surely that would require, at the very least, machining the primer pocket a bit deeper to accept the O-ring while still allowing the breech to close? Again, a non-reversible alteration and not appealing at all to me.

I've also heard that Remington makes or made a low-powered 209 primer specifically for muzzleloader use. Any comments on those?

I've been a very casual muzzleloader for many years, but almost all my experience is with traditional sidelock types and real black powder. The RB7 inline, as well as a CVA I purchased recently, are strictly utilitarian guns I want to use, likely in bad weather only, to extend my season a bit. I will never be shooting them just for fun; I hope to get them set up (with 777 or Pyro or similar BP replacement), shoot a couple times to check my zero before each hunting season, and then maybe shoot once during the season. They won't be range toys at all.

 

[smokeeter]

I am old school at least with the modern muzzleloading albeit smokeless or blackhorn 209, and all of my customs still utilize 209 primer ignition systems for cost, ease and convenience. Whatever is used requires a compatible breech plug to accommodate the primer or primer/carrier module that is used.
There are better ignition systems available than the Variflame .
The biggest benefit to the LRMP ignition (and most of the module systems use LRMP's) is a more constant/cleaner ignition resulting in virtually no crud ring. The modules are good for 20-30 applications and need to be primed and deprimed , the modules cost about $5.00 US ea.
I am satisfied with the 209 performance but it does come a cost of more frequent maintenance , ie. the breechplug has to be cleaned of carbon build up every 20-30 shots.
The other major factor regardless of what ignition is used is proper headspacing to prevent blow by or leakage , alot of guys try to stop the excessive leakage with the addition of O-rings but this is a bandaid solution and the only way is with proper headspace adjustment.
Regarding the low-powder 209 offerings increase the risk of misfires and Blackhorn states not to be used. Currently I am using the hottest that are available and that is Fed. 209A's , the CCI 209M is another option.

 

[jjohnwm]

I am starting to think they are indeed a waste of time, at least for somebody who intends to shoot the gun as infrequently as I do.Back when the earth was still cooling down, 209 primers were "the way to go", because they were hotter, provided better ingition, blah, blah, blah...

Now...all the muzzleloading "scientists" are saying that the 209 is too hot, and will rapidly erode breech plugs, cause excessive gas leakage and crud build-up and who-knows-what else.

Based upon the amount of shooting I will be doing, a breech plug being eroded at record speed will still probably last me my lifetime...and I have two for the one gun, and bout a half-dozen for the other! I should be okay.

Right now, it looks like the biggest advantage to the system for me is the fact that I have no 209 primers on hand, but a bunch of small rifle primers. I can get the kit and use the small rifle primers for only a few bucks more than buying the 209 primers...if I can find them at all...which have no use for me otherwise. But between possible alterations to a breech plug, and possible necessity for O-rings, and the fact that all the shooting I would do to get all this crap to work properly for me exceeds what I ever expected to do with these goofy guns during my lifetime...my interest is waning.

 

[DANS40X]

OP,
Check ArrowHead Sporting Goods.com in Phx,AZ.

Luke manufactures several breech plug options for a variety of inline & smokeless mzl loaders.

Once you run a rifle primer,you will NEVER go back to 209's or caps.

 

[jjohnwm]

Yeah, I'm just not interested in buying modified breech plugs and endless experimentation with rifles that I don't particularly enjoy shooting. If I am shooting blackpowder for fun...it's going to be a sidelock gun. I simply want to have the inline as a foul-weather back-up for hunting. My ideal life with this rifle will be a single 3-shot group each fall, followed by one shot while hunting...or, better yet, no shots while hunting, because I'd much rather be using a sidelock.

I just ordered off the EE a kit consisting of a handful of adaptors that apparently will drop right into my inline's 209 "chamber" and allow the use of small rifle primers (which I have) rather than 209's (which I don't have and can't find). Lots of reports indicate increased accuracy (although my gun shoots well enough for my purposes now) and increased breech plug life (although for me that isn't an issue). Those benefits aside, my main reason for trying it is simply so that I can get the gun shooting again; primer shortages suck.

I'll update after testing.

 

[hunter148]

I have run the 209 adapters, only issue I have is hanging on to the little buggers when hunting, so ran low and then saw a breech plug and .25 cal brass cheap on EE and went that route. Advantage of the .25 brass is it seals the breech plug of any blowback and found enough brass to last 3 lifetimes.
SR primers step up the old smoke pole more than any other mod. The gun now has more of the rifle crack, than the thump of a muzzleloader
I shoot a TC Encore, 195grn, .357 pure lead, double sabot to .50, 100 grns t7, lit with a SR primer. Complete pass throughs from 0-125yds with no kentucky windage, hold on the furnace, job done.
Precision rifle in Manitoba has what you need and done the work to prove the theory

 

[jjohnwm]

I have run the 209 adapters, only issue I have is hanging on to the little buggers when hunting, so ran low and then saw a breech plug and .25 cal brass cheap on EE and went that route. Advantage of the .25 brass is it seals the breech plug of any blowback and found enough brass to last 3 lifetimes.
SR primers step up the old smoke pole more than any other mod. The gun now has more of the rifle crack, than the thump of a muzzleloader
I shoot a TC Encore, 195grn, .357 pure lead, double sabot to .50, 100 grns t7, lit with a SR primer. Complete pass throughs from 0-125yds with no kentucky windage, hold on the furnace, job done.
Precision rifle in Manitoba has what you need and done the work to prove the theory

I've read about that system, and if I ever intended to do a lot of shooting/hunting with an inline (I don't) I would probably go that way. Easier handling alone would be enough to prompt that, but the better sealing at the breech would be a nice bonus.

I get complete penetration now on behind-the-shoulder shots at up to 100 yards (furthest I've tried or would try) using a .54 patched round ball and 90gr FFg Goex black. None of the other benefits and conveniences, of course, but way more fun, IMHO. My favourite gun for that is a Lyman Great Plains Rifle; it's the main reason why I won't spend a lot of time, effort or money on an inline.

 

[hunter148]

Have shot my share of deer with a sidelock and round ball and I agree it has much more class. For a meat gun the Encore is the one I grab. Mine was one of the first in the country about 25 or so years ago and I was thinking the other day I have probably shot 60-70 deer with it over the years. Ontario party hunting rules apply and after Thursday in our gang, its a free tag to whoever gets shooting. I can say I have had the luck to shoot 2-3 every year up until the last couple. The Encore shoots where you point it every time!!

 

[cdnrokon]

Heights Archery here in Winnipeg sells PRBullets stuff, I have had the 25 APC conversion in my omega, the direct 209 conversion in my sidekick, Cecil makes and tests everything he makes. I used to love his all lead conicals they just hammered everything I shot. I just inquired last week for Ron from Heights to order in a Vari Flame 209 adaptor hope to have one soon to try.

 

[jjohnwm]

Heights Archery here in Winnipeg sells PRBullets stuff, I have had the 25 APC conversion in my omega, the direct 209 conversion in my sidekick, Ceicel makes and tests everything he makes. I used to love his all lead conicals they just hammered everything I shot. I just inquired last week for Ron from Heights to order in a Vari Flame 209 adaptor hope to have one soon to try.

That is some excellent info; thank you very much!

I've lived in Manitoba for almost 12 years, and yet I have never actually visited Heights; I must correct that oversight next time I am in town.

I used to own a Sidekick that was a great little shooter; those funny little plastic primer carriers it required were about the only gripe I had with it. If I had known back then about a 209 conversion for it, I'd probably still have it.

Have shot my share of deer with a sidelock and round ball and I agree it has much more class. For a meat gun the Encore is the one I grab. Mine was one of the first in the country about 25 or so years ago and I was thinking the other day I have probably shot 60-70 deer with it over the years. Ontario party hunting rules apply and after Thursday in our gang, its a free tag to whoever gets shooting. I can say I have had the luck to shoot 2-3 every year up until the last couple. The Encore shoots where you point it every time!!

I was into the Encore multi-barrel idea for a long time, but eventually moved away from it. I recall that the barrels I used the most were the .50 muzzleloader, the rifled shotgun and the smoothbore shotgun (set up for turkeys).

I love the way the Encore shoots...but I hate the way it looks and the way it handles.

 

[hunter148]

I have a ProHunter in 243, stainless, synthetic, totally different feel and handling than my .50 with wood. Such is the difference a Boyds set in wood for the 243 is in the not to distant future.