Scope Break in Question

7.62mm

7.62mm

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I am a fairly new poster here, but I have been lurking for quite sometime. I have shot quite a bit with iron sights, through the military and also cadets, and have hunted a fair bit in my life.

My question has to do with a "Scope Break in Routine". I recently puchased a 6.5x55 Swede, made by Husqvarna. I bought this rifle used with scope rings. I purchased a 2x7x33 Bushnell Elite 3200, to top it off. The first few times I went to the range, the rifle was doing 1 - 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds. with factory ammo; not set up for reloading "yet". The last few times I have been to the range, the groups have been getting bigger and bigger. I have shot a totol of 100 rounds with this combo.

I have checked the mounts and all screws for tightness, there was no problem there as I had Locktited all mounting hardware. I am shooting off a solid rest, and using the same factory ammo Winchester 140 gr soft point.

I had read on a previous thread, a few months ago about somebody doing a break in routine for the scopes before they use them, and was wondering if I need to do this to properly seat the "guts" of the scope. I have tried a search , but was unable to find what I was looking for. Maybe I have a lemon for a scope? I do not know how to test whether or not it is the scope, or something else.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

7.62mm
 
a new scope,

i just sighted in a new scope on saturday, the only thing a friend told me to do was take a loaded round use the tip and lightly tap the turrets it helps seat the new adjustments, , incase the crosshairs dont move when you adjusted them ,it does happen with scopes , thats the only thing i do ,
 
If you need to tap the turrets to make sure the crosshairs move and to seat the adjustment, I would suggest a piece of string and a large body of water.:rolleyes: Buy a better scope.

7.62, I don't think it was a scope break-in procedure but rather a scope repeatability test? This involves setting a zero on a spot on the wall and the scope firmly mounted on something. ( it does not have to be on the rifle)

Once the knobs are zeroed and settings recorded wind the knobs 5 minutes right. then go five minutes up, then 10 left, then 10 down then 5 right, then 5 up. You should be back on your spot on the wall. If not your scope is not repeating as accurately as it should. Now try the same thing in reverse order and see if you are back on the spot on the wall.

If the scope is repeatable, your rifle may need a good cleaning. Copper fouling can build up fast on factory barrels, so it may just need a good scubbing after 100 rounds. Once the groups start to open up cleaning the barrel would be the first on my list followed by checking under the bedding for oil.
 
If the scope is repeatable, your rifle may need a good cleaning. Copper fouling can build up fast on factory barrels, so it may just need a good scubbing after 100 rounds. Once the groups start to open up cleaning the barrel would be the first on my list followed by checking under the bedding for oil.
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Maynard:

I have cleaned the bore, as per what I was taught in the military. Brass brush, swab, brass brush, swab blah blah blah, until a cloth cmes out clean. As for oil under the bedding, I am not sure what you mean by that.

I have not tried your method of winding the knobs in different dirrections, but that will be my next project. Obviously you are trying to find out if the scope is repeatable, with your method, and that makes some sense to me. We shall find out shortly.

Thanks,
7.62mm
 
Well, I tried the repeatability test. Clamped the rifle in a bench vise, on a solid bench, and went through the aforementioned repeatability test, and everything went back to where it was. I guess that answers one question. So I will try my search for accuracy in a different forum.

Thanks
7.62mm
 
There's likely other things rather than the scope which is the culprit.

I'd suggest posting this in one of the firearms forums too. I doubt it's a scope problem and others may have some good ideas on that gun where to start looking for issues.

I've never heard of any such thing as a scope 'break in' period. It MIGHT be the scope, but i'm thinking that's not the only potential problem.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't that why a Gunsmith would recommend a process called lapping the rings? So that if there are any imperfections within the mounts, they'll be polished out.

Just my .02
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't that why a Gunsmith would recommend a process called lapping the rings? So that if there are any imperfections within the mounts, they'll be polished out.

Just my .02
Click to expand...

We had a cgn'er here who was looking at making and selling some stuff for that - he gave me a sample of his work but then i lost contact with him. However - i took the time to research that subject extensively.

If two rings are out of alignment, they can cause pressure on the scope, 'bending' it slightly and creating all kinds of greif.

The solution is to gently wear the rings to be in line with the scope. Easy enough.

Here's how to test for the problem - go get two cylinders of metal or wood one inch in diameter. They have to be long enough so that resting on the rings the two ends touch.

take the scope and top ring bands off - and put the cylinders so they rest on the lower part of the rings with the ends touching. If the rings are aligned properly, the two ends should mate up perfectly. If the rings are out, you will see it clearly. Almost all rings are SLIGHTLY out of alignment. But you'll see if they are far out or not.

Here's a trick - if they ARE out, simply take the rings off and turn them 180 degrees and put 'em back on. Sometimes that aligns them better. Play with both of them like that and you'll find the optimum mount.

However - i should point out that having rings THAT far out of alignment is rare, and you'd have thought the last guy would notice.

If you test it and you find there is a problem, come back and ask us how to lap it.
 
7.62,
First the obvious. Have you changed the brand or bullet weight of the ammo you were shooting?
After the standard steps of checking action screws for tightness, checking rings and bases for tightness etc get a bottle of a decent copper solvent and give that barrel a good going over. I know you cleaned your barrel, and I know you were in the military. Still, if the solvent that you were using doesn't eat your bronze brush it never took any jacket material out of the bore either. No copper solvent that I know of is applied with a bronze brush, so you are probably using a nitro solvent of some sort. What color were the patches before they came out clean?100 rounds is either a little or a lot, depending on how smooth your barrel is. You might as well eliminate copper as a possibility anyway.
Next if that doesn't cure it, get that scope off, lap the rings and put a another on. A bushnell failing in 100 rounds is hardly suprising to me. Whether a failure is caused by mis-aligned rings or not you don't want to chance it happening to the next one for the same reason. If your groups return you're done. Send your scope in for warranty and put the test/loaner back where it belongs.
 
7.62mm said:
Maynard:

I have cleaned the bore, as per what I was taught in the military. Brass brush, swab, brass brush, swab blah blah blah, until a cloth cmes out clean. As for oil under the bedding, I am not sure what you mean by that.

I have not tried your method of winding the knobs in different dirrections, but that will be my next project. Obviously you are trying to find out if the scope is repeatable, with your method, and that makes some sense to me. We shall find out shortly.

Thanks,
7.62mm
Click to expand...

Get some JB Paste, a one piece cleaning rod, a good jag and some patches. I never use bronze brushes, but then again I shoot moly bullets out of a custom SS barrel, and usually don't clean very often.
Take the action out of the stock and make sure there isn't any oil, solvent or any other crap between the action and stock. This creeps down through the bedding screws when you clean. Make sure everything is dry under there and torque the bedding screws to about 65 inch lbs.
 
I know you said you applied locktite. But check the mounting base anyway to make 100% sure the screws are tight.

The scope mount installed on my 45/70 by the gun shop came loose. It was doing 3"+ groupings before I found out.

Danny
 
Thanks for all the help guys.

Danny Boy:
I just removed the scope and rings from the mounts to check for tightness, everything was tight, with no loose screws.

Maynard:
I use a brass brush with solvent, but it may not be the correct stuff. I have taken some photos of the muzzle, in which I think I may have found the problem, ie, copper fouling. I fear I may be straying off topic in the Optics forum, and if so please let me know. Here are the photos;

bore3.jpg


Bore1.jpg


I will have to take a trip to the gun store, to try and find some of this JB paste you are talking about, if this is what you think the problem is.

Thanks
7.62mm
 
Great pictures and yes that is copper fouling. See if you can find some Sweet's 7.62 or some other ammonia based solvent. Rem-clean bore cleaner will also work. The ammonia base cleaners will show blue on the patch if copper is still present, but also eat bronze brushes. You need to clean it until he patches come out clean and the copper is gone.
I don't think we are too far of topic, at least we can say the scope it not the problem.
 
maynard said:
Great pictures and yes that is copper fouling. See if you can find some Sweet's 7.62 or some other ammonia based solvent. Rem-clean bore cleaner will also work. The ammonia base cleaners will show blue on the patch if copper is still present, but also eat bronze brushes. You need to clean it until he patches come out clean and the copper is gone.
I don't think we are too far of topic, at least we can say the scope it not the problem.
Click to expand...
doe they make another type of bruse ? or can we wet p[atch it let it sit and dry patch it ?
my .303 has had that problem since i got it and cant seem to git rid of it LOL
 
maynard said:
SignGuy,
You can get Nylon brushed at least for Dewey rods. A wet patch will work on a proper jug.
Click to expand...
i have 2 dif types of jags a sloted and a solid i am assuming the solid type is better with the wet patch then the slotted one?
 
Quick Update:

I am astonished:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I can't believe what came out of the barrel:cool:
Thanks for all your help, and I will be sure to "clean" better in the future. I could not find any JB Paste that you had suggested, Maynard, my local gun shop didn't have any, but I was able to get HOPPE"S BENCH REST Copper Solvent. I may need to do more work yet, but it is getting better.

I will see how it shoots this weekend and give you a report
Here's some pics of what came out of the barrel,

patches.jpg


The patches are in order, left to right, top to bottom.

Thanks for your help
7.62mm
 
At this point, it's important to remember we're laughing WITH you, not at you :)

Except maynard - he's laughing at you a bit. :D

That should definately help, keep it up till you get it perfect.
 
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