Davy Crockett
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
In the rules (or unofficial rules of being a good sport) is there a limit to the amount of magnification a guy should use for SR?
scope power limit?
- Thread starter Davy Crockett
- Start date
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
I think it depends on the association you are shooting service rifle with, but my personal rule of thumb is you should be willing to use the same setup for Service CQB. (i.e. having a .308 AR with a 26" heavy barrel and 6-24x scope is technically allowed, but IMO not as sporting as using a standard 16" or 20" barreled AR with a low magnification scope)
IMHO at least.
IMHO at least.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
If you are running a big dollar space gun and winning, people will credit the rifle. If you and your big dollar rifle are getting schooled, you look like an idiot.
Davy Crockett
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley
lol, I'd like to avoid that
I was asking because I thought might actually be a technicality there and I want to make sure that whatever I buy is gtg.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Not in DCRA but I will admit I am waiting for them to be reposted.
Haha!Well said Will!
While there is no written rule a couple of things come into play.
In some matches where the target is close and fleeting or moving, you may be a little disadvantaged trying to find your target quickly with high magnification.
And like GL said If your running a freefloated thing, with a compensator, a heavy barrel, shooting 77 grain mks and a 20x scope and you are still getting your ass
kicked by a guy with a rack grade C7 and a gen 1 elcan, well you can imagine the feeling.I have found most of those folks leave pretty disheartened and don't come back.
While there is no written rule a couple of things come into play.
In some matches where the target is close and fleeting or moving, you may be a little disadvantaged trying to find your target quickly with high magnification.
And like GL said If your running a freefloated thing, with a compensator, a heavy barrel, shooting 77 grain mks and a 20x scope and you are still getting your ass
kicked by a guy with a rack grade C7 and a gen 1 elcan, well you can imagine the feeling.I have found most of those folks leave pretty disheartened and don't come back.
trigger'06
CGN Regular
- Location
- Abbotsford B.C.
Who knows what might change in the future. The lower power variables 1x4,1x6,2x7 are the most versatile.Our troops are stuck with fixed power elcan, and some can quite effectively overcome it's shortcomings with skill and training. I myself would'nt use a scope without target knobs unless mandated. Adjustability at different ranges and quick target aquisition at shorter ranges is more important than max magnification.There is also the sporting thing. Personally, I think we should go back to irons and level the field.
If I was still shooting someone else's rifle with their ammo and getting paid to do it, I'd use what they gave me and do it with a smile on my face.
Since every pull of the trigger costs most every civilian shooter money, they should not be guilted into thinking their handloads (which is cheaper to run than retail priced ammo) or their better-than-elcrap scope somehow holds an advantage in this sport.
A good quality variable power optic with target turrets is an excellent choice that will likely last a lifetime of shooting and is far more flexible if you want to use it for other types of shooting too.
You'll hear army guys b!tching about some of the 'space guns' and other kit holding some advantage, but the real advantage in this sport is proper training and meaningful trigger time.
Nightforce Scope: $1300
Beat up old Colt H-Bar: $1000
Handful of handloads: $120
Spanking a top-flight CF shooter half your age on the rundown: Priceless
For everything else there's VISA
Since every pull of the trigger costs most every civilian shooter money, they should not be guilted into thinking their handloads (which is cheaper to run than retail priced ammo) or their better-than-elcrap scope somehow holds an advantage in this sport.
A good quality variable power optic with target turrets is an excellent choice that will likely last a lifetime of shooting and is far more flexible if you want to use it for other types of shooting too.
You'll hear army guys b!tching about some of the 'space guns' and other kit holding some advantage, but the real advantage in this sport is proper training and meaningful trigger time.
Nightforce Scope: $1300
Beat up old Colt H-Bar: $1000
Handful of handloads: $120
Spanking a top-flight CF shooter half your age on the rundown: Priceless
For everything else there's VISA
Mmm ... When you get to NSCC and top flite elite shooters are using all that stuff it does make a little difference.Every match I've probably shot in has been seperated but only a couple of points.
When your 77 grainers shoot a 150 with 27 V in the deliberates that is something NO rack grade C7 can achieve.Even if you shoot a 146 with 20 you still lost 4 valuable points.And that's just fine.
I can shoot my own AR and handloads and probably duplicate the 150 with 27 but prefer to use an issued gun and ammo.makes me feel even better about myself when I'm a couple points away from the space
gunners.
If I never win an individual match again in my life I wouldn't care because its the end result on the scoreboard at the end of the day that matters.And that is priceless.
When your 77 grainers shoot a 150 with 27 V in the deliberates that is something NO rack grade C7 can achieve.Even if you shoot a 146 with 20 you still lost 4 valuable points.And that's just fine.
I can shoot my own AR and handloads and probably duplicate the 150 with 27 but prefer to use an issued gun and ammo.makes me feel even better about myself when I'm a couple points away from the space
gunners.
If I never win an individual match again in my life I wouldn't care because its the end result on the scoreboard at the end of the day that matters.And that is priceless.
Shelldrake
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Right behind you,,
NSCC is any rifle, any sight.
As the others say, there is an upper and lower limits that will cramp your style. The ideal sight for the NSCC service matches, would be a nice 3-10ish variable in my assessment.
If I shoot NSCC this year, I hope to be running a stiff floating barrel, muzzle brake, sweet trigger and Leupold M3 scope, and if I have the time will be shooting 69gr or 77gr Sierra match kings. As Longshot says,, If I don't beat every plain jane C7 shooter in every match,, then it will be a bit of an embarrassment,, but congrats to them for doing so. I would really only be competing against the other top shooters using similar kit in the open class.
With its own 400m and 600m stages in Service Rifle at NSCC,, the service rifle is evolving to include what might be termed sharpshooting or DM matches. At the other end of the stick, is the CQB matches which have not really made a big appearance at NSCC (it has in Ontario with ORA though),, and in the CQB matches here where all the shooting is from 35m down to 10m, the optics are all low power or zero power.
Better kit will allow a better shooter achieve better results (and a hand full of points will go a long way in the bigger matches). Better kit will make a poor shooter understand where he needs to focus his training on to get better results (if he does any self analysis). Much the same as a poorly trained army with good kit, can expect to have a hard time dealing with an army with superior training and poorer kit (all other things being equal).
As the others say, there is an upper and lower limits that will cramp your style. The ideal sight for the NSCC service matches, would be a nice 3-10ish variable in my assessment.
If I shoot NSCC this year, I hope to be running a stiff floating barrel, muzzle brake, sweet trigger and Leupold M3 scope, and if I have the time will be shooting 69gr or 77gr Sierra match kings. As Longshot says,, If I don't beat every plain jane C7 shooter in every match,, then it will be a bit of an embarrassment,, but congrats to them for doing so. I would really only be competing against the other top shooters using similar kit in the open class.
With its own 400m and 600m stages in Service Rifle at NSCC,, the service rifle is evolving to include what might be termed sharpshooting or DM matches. At the other end of the stick, is the CQB matches which have not really made a big appearance at NSCC (it has in Ontario with ORA though),, and in the CQB matches here where all the shooting is from 35m down to 10m, the optics are all low power or zero power.
Better kit will allow a better shooter achieve better results (and a hand full of points will go a long way in the bigger matches). Better kit will make a poor shooter understand where he needs to focus his training on to get better results (if he does any self analysis). Much the same as a poorly trained army with good kit, can expect to have a hard time dealing with an army with superior training and poorer kit (all other things being equal).
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I will be the first to say that the Nightforce 2.5-10x32 would be my first choice. However I would only expect to pick up a few points per match using it over an Elcan. That is about the difference between me and the open class winners at NSCC.
The whole level playing field thing is a pain in the arse if done by restricting equipment. If you restrict people too much you end up with a dead end like TR, no optics, mandated caliber, mandated bullet, no comps and no development. In the future I can see DMR becoming its own class but Service Rifle is not big enough to support a third class (at this time).
The whole level playing field thing is a pain in the arse if done by restricting equipment. If you restrict people too much you end up with a dead end like TR, no optics, mandated caliber, mandated bullet, no comps and no development. In the future I can see DMR becoming its own class but Service Rifle is not big enough to support a third class (at this time).
Lots of great advice here. I've seen many soldiers kick butt with their rack grade C7A1's and A2 at both provincial & national levels. It's the skilled shooter and not always the kit that matters.
Oh yah, the well used gym membership is a major factor!
Come on out and watch some matches, then get some practice and participate in the SR matches, they certainly are not boring!
Cheers,
Barney
It's the skilled shooter and not always the kit that matters. Oh yah, the well used gym membership is a major factor!
Come on out and watch some matches, then get some practice and participate in the SR matches, they certainly are not boring!
Cheers,
Barney
capncrunch
Member
- Location
- South Simcoe
I picked up one of these last spring. The SPR reticle is nice, very fine crosshairs which don't obscure the target. It took a fair amount of abuse last year and no problems to report. Held it's zero flawlessly. I use it for SR as well as CQB. Works well out to 400 yards for Matches 1-4 , and down to 15 yards for CQB. Never gone beyond 400 with it, I use a Mark 4 3-9x for Matches 1-12.
Only complaint is fairly minor. I found the clicks in the M2 dials a bit mushy and hard to feel. A more distinct click would be preferable. The M1 and Nightforce dials are more easily distinguishable. I'm hoping that with more use the M2 dial clicks will become more crisp.
