Seating depth-- .45ACP (Excel bullets suck!!)

happydude

happydude

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I've figured out Excel bullets for .45acp suck. They wouldn't chamber in my gun (USP), some bullets were even pulled out when I tried to extract them leaving powder all over the place. So, if I'm going to use the other 475 or so that I've got left:
-Can I use slightly oversize bullets without blowing myself/gun up (logic tells me no, but I'm exhausted and it seems like a good idea...)
-What's the lowest seating depth for a .45ACP with a 230grn FMJ bullet? Factory is around 1.260, 1.250 is not short enough, is 1.230 too short to result in over pressure?

Here's a copy of the PM I send to another CGN that has some useful information:

Ok, so after about an hour of trial and error I think I've figured out my reloading woes. I mic'd the Excel bullets I was using and having problems with, they average around .452-.453 with about maybe 1 in 10 being the right size. I still have 4 of the Winchester FMJ left over that I first used (and those reloads were working just fine) so I mic'd them and they all were a nice .451. I loaded up a dummy with the Winchester .451 bullet and sure enough, perfect fit with no extraction problems. I loaded up a few with the Excel bullets and I continued to have the same problems as at the range with them jamming and actually pulling themselves out of the case upon extraction. I tried using my Lee Factory Taper Crimp die on them and figured out that it was only squeezing the area around the case mouth on the brass. I squeezed one down to a ridicously small size, even noticed the brass discoloring it was such a shrink, and that one wouldn't load either. After some thought, I loaded up an Excel but seating it to a much lower depth (1.230 as opposed to 1.260) and that one chambered fine! My theory, the excel bullets are oversize and not the proper shape, they have less taper/curve to them than the Winchester FMJ which means that the nose of the bullet is wider in places thus causing it to jam. Seating it lower means that the area just above the brasss is less. To prove my theory I mic'd a factory round just about the top of the brass, my good winchester (those two mic'd the same), my good excel that was seating lower (same as the other two), and one of my ####ty rounds (mic'd way larger). My guess is that Steve's die somehow squeezed the bullets/sat them lower as well, making them feed. To double check my theory, I sat one of the problem rounds from the range to the lower depth, and sure enough it works now!!!
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Lead bullets should be 1 thou over bore size, so .452 is correct. I don't think you are seating them deep enough. You should maintain minimum OAL for max loads as pressure can increase when seated deeper. With 5% under max loads or so, don't worry about seating a little deeper.
 
He's shooting jacketed. And yes, I could imagine those excel's sucked, it
looked like they were found in a homeless person's shopping cart. Thankfully
they (who shall remain nameless) put them in a bag when you left the
store :)

--PM
 
Sinasta said:
Are they the copper plated ones? I need some bullets for my USP as well and was thinking of picking some copper plated ones.
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I bought about 4000 of the Excel copper plated bullets. Even though they were cheap (I should have wondered why) they were not worth the money. They were not round. The sides of the bullets were not even straight. The size was all over the place. I had nothing but problems until I stopped trying to use them. Then my problems went away.
 
howdy ; I just miked my 45 colt 250 Excell bullets They are .452 and round . The lead is not rock hard ,thats good for CAS shooting . I have found no issues with them.
IS Excell bullets still in business ??
 
Colt as in wheel gun? cause you can size .454 in the old guns. As for pistol, if having trouble .451 is an option. Gonna go check mine, back to ammend this in a sec. :D
Gonna head out and get a frecken battery #357 , update later today on lead acp, and lc bullets.:rolleyes: :)
 
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??
I use excel exclusively for my .45 handloading.. Never had a problem.
Once in a while I run across a wonkey bullet, but not enough to go slaggin' 'em on the internet.
Maybe you need a lesson in reloading?
 
I used them in the Super when I first started IPSC and my my budget was somewhat limited. They were priced close to lead, clean like jacketed. Best of both worlds. Matter of fact, the accuracy was outstanding, maybe due to the fact they were slightly oversized.(357 as I recall)

I really only stopped using them because when I travelled south jacketed were easier to find in a hurry.
 
VICIOUS said:
howdy ; I just miked my 45 colt 250 Excell bullets They are .452 and round . The lead is not rock hard ,thats good for CAS shooting . I have found no issues with them.
IS Excell bullets still in business ??
Click to expand...

You can't (or should not) use copper wash or plated bullets for CAS.

667 said:
??
I use excel exclusively for my .45 handloading.. Never had a problem.
Once in a while I run across a wonkey bullet, but not enough to go slaggin' 'em on the internet.
Maybe you need a lesson in reloading?
Click to expand...

If it were a few wonkey bullets I would not care. But when you have to spend the time to cull the bad 30% and then the bullets that you did use shift in the case when in the gun then I will comment about it. When they put on the label on the box *Premium and Match Grade bullets and they were crap then I will comment about it.

If you guys are talking about the lead bullets rather than the PLATED bullets then we are not talking about the same thing. I have used their lead sized and lubed bullets and have been very happy with them. It's their PLATED bullets that I could not use.

EXCEL45.jpg
 
Yep, talking about plated bullets here. Don't get me wrong, I've shot about 10 of them through the gun and they worked just fine. True, I'm still new at reloading but those bullets are of poor quality and considering that I cannot use them interchangeably with other fmj bullets than I'd say it's not all my fault. For the savings I don't think they're worth it, and there are other Excel bashing posts to back me up on this. Bullet shape and size is inconsistant and poor, which in my books in not acceptable. Next time, I'll be ording in some of BDX's stuff.

At least the hobo I bought them from gave me a better price.
 
Plating is applying a the jacket though electroplating or some other method.. unless there is a swaging process after it the finished product will have inconsistent results...

Jacketed bullet are manufactured with a formed jacket being swaged over a lead core... the result is very consistent product dimensionally... depending on the raw materials, pressures and manufacturing process used the product can also be very consistant weight wise.. And there are many manufacturers that have mastered this..
 
Cocked&Locked said:
Do you taper crimp? I find if you taper crimp plated stuff, most of the problems you mention go away.
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Yes. The problem with the bullets I have used is that they are built like some women. 34-30-36

When chambering a round the bullet is pushed into the case. :eek: I will not risk a blowup of my 45 just to save a couple of bucks. Now to be honest these were bullets produced a number of years ago. I hope they have improved. As I said before I was more than happy with their lead bullets (not plated).
 
Cocked&Locked said:
Do you taper crimp? I find if you taper crimp plated stuff, most of the problems you mention go away.
Click to expand...

Actually the taper crimp will only solve the problem above the crimp line assuming that you can swage the round it can cause case bulging below the bottom of the die and if the bullet is that over size you will end up with a bulge just below the crimp ring...

unless you factory resize (full length resize) after you crimp..

Excel bullets are supposed to have gotten better I don't know. My experience with them was not that great but it was years ago... I've loaded my share of "oversize" bullets and attempted to swage them at the crimp station only to find the rounds were garbage either in that the don't shoot well or they don't chamber.... I have about 3K rounds of 9mm in the lockup that I need to run through a sizing die since they won't all chamber... I won't mention the brand of bullets used but they aren't something I sell and they are plated...
 
Well, I agree with the general consensus here; Excel is not of consistent dimensioning, especially the copper plated ones. I have had acceptable boxes, and poor boxes, inconsitent, but that is the result of the mass production plating process used; its called barrel plating, wherein thousands of bullets are plated at once in a specialized electroplating barrel that rotates during the plating operation; difficult to control accurately.
I use Excel plated only when I can not find a more suitable choice as dictated by pricing.
For unplated cast bullet quality and pricing, nobody can beat the BULLET BARN!
 
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