seating depth

daniellybbert

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not sure if this is the right spot or if it should be in gunsmithing but im wondering how to determine the depth of the chamber on a custom barrel for bullet seating purposes ( if that makes any sense)
I know that the further out ( to a point ) increases acurracy but how much do you seat out the bullet before its to much
thanx daniel
 
Most fellas that seat "hard to the lands" adjust till they get a "square" mark on the bullet when it is seat, ie. the marks are as long as they are wide.
Some simply touch the lands, other like it about .010 off.
The Barnes guys tend to go a bit short , about .050 to start.
Most of my rifles just touch, my 6mmBR is set so the bullets are hard to the lands.

if you start touching, and do a ladder test , shortening .010 at a time for each 5 shot group, you should reach a point where your groups shrink, then open up again....

Cat
 
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thanks but how deep does a guy cut the chamber or does that matter as long as the seating is good from the lands
Im just wondering on how much bullet held in the case neck is optimum
 
I heard that it is best to have the base of the bt seated just above the base of the neck. So it is best to decide which bullet you want to shoot then seat it in a dummy round to that depth and then you can your chamber throated so that the bullet just touches the lands.
 
One of the issues I came across when seating bullets too far out was inconsistent "runout", I found that I needed to keep at least 15% of the bullet in the case to ensure optimum runout. This was derived using .308, and .223, and .284.

I found that for Berger 155gn bullets if I seated 20 thou back from the lands the bullets had poor runout and shot .8 inch groups., when I backed them off to 50 thou with more in the case the groups dropped to .3 inch.

I am not sure if a more expensive forster or other micrometer seating die may have helped to preserve runout with the bullets seated longer. That is my next project to work out.
 
I'm not sure that we are not missing the point of the question, which essentially asks how long the throat should be. In order to specifically answer that question, we would need to know what cartridge the barrel is chambered for, and what range of bullet weights and styles you intend to shoot in this rifle.

You could have the throat cut so that the lightest (shortest) bullet you intend to shoot can still contact the rifling. If you choose this route, and you wish to shoot a heavy for caliber (long) bullet, that bullet may have to be set back well into the case and reduce the powder capacity of the cartridge. To go the other way and cut the throat for the heavy bullet would also cause problems, as it would cause a light bullet to have significant jump before it could engage the rifling.

Ideally you would have a bullet weight and style in mind for use in this rifle. You could make up a dummy round with this specific bullet, and have the gunsmith cut the throat based on this cartridge’s dimensions. I myself try to follow the one caliber seating depth rule, as I believe it reduces the incidence of unloading a round and leaving the bullet stuck in the throat. However as time goes by this approach is loosing favor among the accuracy crowd, and might not even be possible with some of the newer short bearing surface VLD bullets.
 
roberti11 said:
One of the issues I came across when seating bullets too far out was inconsistent "runout", I found that I needed to keep at least 15% of the bullet in the case to ensure optimum runout. This was derived using .308, and .223, and .284.

I found that for Berger 155gn bullets if I seated 20 thou back from the lands the bullets had poor runout and shot .8 inch groups., when I backed them off to 50 thou with more in the case the groups dropped to .3 inch.

I am not sure if a more expensive forster or other micrometer seating die may have helped to preserve runout with the bullets seated longer. That is my next project to work out.
I tend to agree with roberti11 !
Had the same issue with the 308 and found it to come back in at your 15% +-
as for that and seating depth most of my target rifles like the kissing the lands deal, however each rifle has a sweet spot and its you job to find it for ultimate accuracy, but its never a bad idea to start on the lands.
 
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I think Boomer is right. I have had my barrels throated based on the rounds I load.

If d-bert is getting a custom rife chambered, talk to the plumber about throating for the types of bullets you plan on using.
 
I talked to my smith and got it explained and figured it out
I will be limited cuz my gun has a mag and not a single shot
so Ill just have to see what will fit in the mag and if i want and can go longer then ill just have to use it like a single shot
Daniel
thanx for the help
 
daniellybbert said:
I talked to my smith and got it explained and figured it out
I will be limited cuz my gun has a mag and not a single shot
so Ill just have to see what will fit in the mag and if i want and can go longer then ill just have to use it like a single shot
Daniel
thanx for the help

Which action and what caliber are you thinking of chambering?
bigbull
 
roberti11 said:
One of the issues I came across when seating bullets too far out was inconsistent "runout", I found that I needed to keep at least 15% of the bullet in the case to ensure optimum runout. This was derived using .308, and .223, and .284.

I found that for Berger 155gn bullets if I seated 20 thou back from the lands the bullets had poor runout and shot .8 inch groups., when I backed them off to 50 thou with more in the case the groups dropped to .3 inch.

I am not sure if a more expensive forster or other micrometer seating die may have helped to preserve runout with the bullets seated longer. That is my next project to work out.

On a side note this is a very good point. Too often shooters try so hard to seat the bullet out and give up accuracy by introducing runout because af the lack of bullet support. It is at times possible to have minimal runout but you have to single hand feed the rounds into the chamber because feeding through the magazine plays heck with bullet runout and the accuracy goes out the window. A proper throat/lead can only be cut for a narrow range of bullet weights, the rest will be a compromise limited by magazine length and or limited bullet support for the shorter bullets. It will be a compromise. The shorter mag boxes like the Rem 700's are limited to about 2.790 OAL, this will require a very short throat to allow you to seat the bullet and get close to the rifling and still feed through the magazine.
The loading tecnique also plays into the runout game and learning to load ammo properly goes a long way in keeping the runout at a minimum.
bigull
 
the action is a nesika
the bottom metal is a nesika h&s long magazine
as for the caliber it is a 338 lapua AI
I went for the mag because i want to hunt with it and i just dont appreciate single shots
so I guess if the longer bullets like the amax wont fit in the mag then ill just single load them but i think the seirra match bullets are a bit shorter (i think)
as for hunting im going to probably use the 210 gr tsx
Im also buying the rcbs dies with the micrometer on the seating die wich hopefuly will help with run out
guess there are no quick fixes and ill just have to try it out (at least it will be fun)
 
If I were you. I would buy a Lee custom collet die. They will make you a collet die for $50 plus shipping. All you have to do is send them 3 fired brass. I have both Lee collets and rcbs competition dies and I like the Lee better and they are a 1/4 of the price.
 
dan, I can only assume you are making a reamer to fit your dimensions. If so, the best thing to do is seat a bullet in a case (you don't need to improve it) so that it fits and feeds from your mag and action. Do all the neck prep (neck turn, trim etc) you want in the finished rd.

Send a couple of these 'cartridges' to the reamer manufacturer. They will take the neck and throat dimensions off the case. Just tell them you want to be a few thou off the lands and whatever clearance you want around the neck. They will understand. For hunting, hard seating is not a great idea.

If planning on using 250 to 300gr MK, I would suggest a 1.5deg leade. The shallower the better. Most reamer manf default to 2.5 or 3 deg. That abrupt of a leade can up your pressures when using long bearing surface/ogive bullets.

If you are using a reamer the gunsmith already has, you are stuck with whatever is dimensioned in the reamer now.

From playing with a variety of wildcats and designing my own, I have 'discovered' that as long as the bullet fully engraves into the lands BEFORE leaving the case neck, accuracy can be very good.

From the above posts of tuning bullet seating depth, no mention is made to adjusting the powder amount. By moving the bullet back and forth, you also change the combustion chamber thus affect pressures.

You can mimic that effect by simply moving powder increments by 2 tenths. As long as the ammo runout is very low and the neck tension high enough to properly hold the bullet during field use, this adjustment of powder will accomplish the same thing as changing bullet seating depth for most bullets.

Some VLD bullets need to be hard seated but I doubt you will be using any of these hunting.

When calc your dimensions of your reamer, take into account that while hunting your ammo can get wet and dirty. Additional clearance around the neck will add a measure of safety to your rifle.

Jerry
 
my reamer has already been made and is here along with the head spaceing gauge so i guess im stuck with what i got
but it will still shoot good
 
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