second opinion first tme buyer

mclaren

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Hey Everyone,
I am new to these forums and new to hunting all together. I would like to get into duck,goose and game bird hunting. I am looking to buy my first shotgun and there are alot to choose from. I know that I want a 12 guage since it will be the most versatile. Also I have decided to get a semi-auto right off the bat, because if i get a pump i know that the next year i will want it anyway, so in the long run it will save me money. I have been looking at browning, benelli and remington. The browning silver hunter that chambers 3 1/2" shells has caught my eye. Do you think this gun will give me a bang for my buck and accomplish everything i am looking to hunt? Also what other shotguns would be aroung the same price range (up to $1300) and quality Thanks
 
Fit is the most important, try a few in the store to see how they come up to your shoulder. Any of the majors will give you good service. 3 1/2" are not really needed but if the shotgun you pick uses them bonus, you can still use 3". Good luck in your hunt for a shotgun.
 
Make sure the shotgun fits you , there are threads that describe how to tell. Personally I want an all purpose shotgun to be not much more than 7 lbs,especially if upland is a big part of your shotgun hunting. With 3.5 inch guns it can be hard to find one that isn't too heavy and points well, one that does is the benelli SBII but it is more than your budget unless you go used.
 
With that price range most semi shotguns are attainable. Might as well have a look at the Beretta Urika/extrema 2 while your're at it. Clay at Prophet River had some Urikas going for $999.
 
Not trying to bash semis, but when duck hunting I tend to fire a lot more shells with my semi than with my pumps. I don't seem to get any more ducks, just more shooting.

As for 3 1/2" shells, the only "benefit" I found was the pounding both your shoulder and wallet will take. See if you can find someone with a 3 1/2" gun that will let you fire off a box. Then be your own judge. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to say the 3 1/2" shells recoil too hard for me. If you think you need more range use 3" HD or Tungsten Matrix type shells. Again very expensive but they will give you all the range and more of the 3 1/2" steel shells.

You may also want to consider that many semis that are chambered for 3 1/2" do not cycle all 2 3/4" loads well.

Something to consider if ammo costs are important to you.

Personally I have had the best luck using pumps. Mostly Remington 870s but I have also used Mossbergs with good results. If you go with Mossberg, you can get both a 500 with 3 barrels and a 930 semi within your budget and probably have money left over for some shells.

An 870 Wingmaster new would be well under your budget, do everything you want and leave enough money for shells for a lot of shooting/hunting. Used would save you even more.
 
If the Browning fits you, it is a very good gun that will shoot any modern 12 gauge ammo you have on hand. I really like the Browning Semi-Line and the ability to launch 3 1/2 inch BBB loads at late season Honkers is very appealing.
 
Not trying to bash semis, but when duck hunting I tend to fire a lot more shells with my semi than with my pumps. I don't seem to get any more ducks, just more shooting.

As for 3 1/2" shells, the only "benefit" I found was the pounding both your shoulder and wallet will take. See if you can find someone with a 3 1/2" gun that will let you fire off a box. Then be your own judge. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to say the 3 1/2" shells recoil too hard for me. If you think you need more range use 3" HD or Tungsten Matrix type shells. Again very expensive but they will give you all the range and more of the 3 1/2" steel shells.

You may also want to consider that many semis that are chambered for 3 1/2" do not cycle all 2 3/4" loads well.

Something to consider if ammo costs are important to you.

Personally I have had the best luck using pumps. Mostly Remington 870s but I have also used Mossbergs with good results. If you go with Mossberg, you can get both a 500 with 3 barrels and a 930 semi within your budget and probably have money left over for some shells.

An 870 Wingmaster new would be well under your budget, do everything you want and leave enough money for shells for a lot of shooting/hunting. Used would save you even more.

You mention pounding his wallet with 3 1/2 loads and then you mention HD and Tungsten shot :rolleyes:, a box of 3 1/2 inch Blackcloud is 30$ and has 25 shells in it, a box of Wingmaster HD is 27 dollars and has 10 shells in it.As for range, 40 yards or so is all anyone should be shooting at especially someone buying their first shotgun.

You also mention not functioning properly with 2 3/4inch target loads, this is a Browning not a Mossberg or Baikal.

A Browning Semi would be a great first gun. Just get aquainted with it on clays before you shoot at something living.
 
The first 2 things you need to do: try the gun for fit. If it does not point right when you bring it up, pass it by. 2; take it out & pattern it. Shoot it at paper at 30 yds and see where it puts most of the pellets. Try different size shells & shot. Work with what the gun likes. As for guns I have a Baikal 3 1/2 and a Mossberg 3". My son has a Rem 1100 mag 3" also in my rack..All work very well but I was happy I had my Baikal (synthetic) out this year, as i ended up twice on my face in the swamp we were shooting. The gun was cleaned off & we kept shooting. I got a limit of green heads. AJ
 
I've been using a Browning Maxus this year and find it nice and soft shooting, I used the shims provided to raise my sight picture and was hitting good with it, and no problems. I agree with turkey slayer, the 3 1/2" is a good option for tough honkers. I recommend the gun so far, and i believe that the Winchester Super X 3 is the same gun without the fancy forend.
 
Most hunters will tell you they have no need for the 3.5" shells, and many of those who have fired 3.5" shells will tell you they are punishing. I kill all my ducks with 2-3/4" steel, and only move to 3" for geese.

Since you say you are getting into bird hunting, you really should consider doing lots of practice and training on the trap and/or skeet field. So make sure your gun can reliably cycle target loads.

As said earlier, having a gun fit you is imperative. If you aren't of average dimensions, you may need some professional assistance. Here the trap and skeet shooters can be of great help.
 
Most hunters will tell you they have no need for the 3.5" shells, and many of those who have fired 3.5" shells will tell you they are punishing. I kill all my ducks with 2-3/4" steel, and only move to 3" for geese.

I would say that for 80% of waterfowling 3 1/2 shells are marginally more effective than 2 3/4 or 3 inch shells, however I assume that you pursue waterfowl in Manitoba, there is a large difference between your Manitoba migrators and the resident birds in Ontario, the 3 1/2 chamber begins to shine when the birds have been shot at for the better part of 4 months and have an extra layer of fat or two and are not decoying at 10 yards like September birds.

A 3 1/2 inch chamber is a good way to hedge your bets abit especially when you are shooting an self-shucker which absorbs some recoil.
 
If it fits the Silver is an excellent choice. 3 1/2 inch? Not for me, but for some it might be a nice option. Does not mean that you have to use 3 1/2 all the time. A gun the quality of a silver will probably handle lighter when it is broke in.
 
hey everyone,
thanks for the replies so far and please keep responding. All of your advice is great. I always just assumed that you might as well buy a shotgun that takes 3 1/2" shell so so that option is always there for you. But now hearing all of your inputs it sounds like 3 1/2" shells are almost not needed in most cases. Also as far as buying a pump over a semi, i assume that my thought process makes sense to go right for a semi considering that i would like to get into bird hunting. Thanks alot guys keep it coming.
 
Fit is paramount IMO and personally, I've never needed over a 3", but as said before, Ontario birds do come right in. I've got 2 Browning pumps, a 20 and a 12, love both, and Browning would be my choice for another scatter gun.

From another perspective, if you want accessories, Browning is not the gun for you. Look at Mosberg or Remington, barrels, stocks, all the toys are available for them. Some might say they're not of the quality of a Browning or Benelli, but I'm not going to start that argument on your thread.

Last thing you might consider is this is your first shotty, you'll buy others. Maybe spend less now, figure out what you really like and whats important in a firearm. Next gun, get what you really want, after you know what that is.

Cheers
Dog
 
Last thing you might consider is this is your first shotty, you'll buy others. Maybe spend less now, figure out what you really like and whats important in a firearm. Next gun, get what you really want, after you know what that is.

Unless you decide the sport is not for you, I suspect the bold part of this quote will prove to be true.

When I started migratory bird hunting (40 years ago) I had only a 16 gauge single shot Cooey. My friends had pumps and autos. At the end of every hunt, I noticed that our bags were usually quite similar. The difference was that the others used 3 times as many shells as I did. More often than not, when they missed with the first shot, they missed with the second and third, too.

In the intervening years, I've hunted migratory and upland with every conceivable shot gun design. In a sense, I still prefer singles over pumps and autos, but now I like two singles in one - doubles - either superposed or juxtaposed. Double trigger SXS's for hunting and single trigger U/O's for target competition.

In your case, my recommendation would be that you look for an U/O (my personal preferences don't apply well to you because I don't hunt migratory anymore). Generally speaking, ANY shotgun will do. What we're really discussing is what might be the most versatile. I'm recommending an U/O because:

  • they're superior for target shooting in many ways
  • they're not bad in a duck blind, although break actions can be a bit unwieldy in a blind at times
  • they're also not bad in the uplands, all things considered

CONSIDERATIONS:

1) Barrel length should be long for target shooting and migratory birds, and shorter for the uplands. 30" or more is recommended for targets. 28" (shorter in thicker bush) is most flexible in the uplands. Here, you will certainly have to compromise, depending on which you expect to shoot most.

2) Double triggers are clearly preferable for hunting, but impractical for targets. Here again, you need to make a judgment call.

3) Pistol or semi-pistol grips offer advantages for targets and for migratory. While straight (English-style) stocks enhance double trigger use, they could be sacrificed in the uplands without significant consequences.

4) New guns will almost certainly come with choke tubes (although, interestingly, we are seeing the first glimpses of a nascent resurgence in the popularity of fixed chokes). If the chokes are fixed, Full and Modified would be most suited to all disciplines at once.

5) No matter what the neophytes will tell you, semi-autos are a PITA at target competitions. They're great in the wetlands, but chew through the ammo compared to other designs. They're okay in the uplands.

6) If you don't like U/O's, a pump should be your second choice. Definitely, U/O's will cost more than pumps of similar quality.

7) Decide if you like the confidence you get from an auto safety, or whether you prefer to assume the safety is off, unless you deliberately put it on yourself.

8) Heed the advice of those who talk about fit. Learn the characteristics of a proper mount. Practice proper mounting again and again until you can do it entirely instinctively. Then, with your eyes closed, mount a gun that you are considering. When you open your eyes, you should be looking right down the rib. If not, there's an issue with fit - either drop-at-comb, length of pull, cast, etc. (keep in mind that you'll probably be wearing your hunting jacket or shooting vest when using the gun).

9) Don't fall for the BS notion that heavier loads equals better results. That's a load of crap perpetrated by ammo manufacturers that are just looking to sell more ammo. Pattern your gun. Find out for certain how various loads pattern at shorter and longer ranges, through differing chokes. Test light loads, too, and be amazed by how the results are far better than you expected (you can test long-range killing power by observing penetration through equal stacks of cards).

10) Borrow lots of guns. Easiest way to do this is to ask if you can shoot a few rounds through another chap's gun while at the range. Many shooters will balk at lending out their guns outright, but have no problem with someone shooting their gun in their presence, provided they handle the gun with utmost respect.

11) Don't expect that a single shotgun will satisfy all your needs, if you get bitten by the shooting bug. If you enjoy any of these sports, you'll develop your own preferences and want different tools for different jobs/conditions.

12) NEVER call a gun a "shotty", unless you're ###.
 
5) No matter what the neophytes will tell you, semi-autos are a PITA at target competitions.

I am not sure what this is based on. All one has to do is flip through Sporting Clays Magazine, to see that the auto loaders, especially the 391 are in the hands of many winners. In addition to other target guns, I have a pair of 391 parallel targets. I have used the 391 for all of the clay sports with exception of bunker. Actually I have tried it on bunker, but having to load 2 and then immediately remove one and immediately move off my station to the next was a bit of a nuisance, so I decided it was not the ideal. Works great on everything else.
 
I am not sure what this is based on. All one has to do is flip through Sporting Clays Magazine, to see that the auto loaders, especially the 391 are in the hands of many winners. In addition to other target guns, I have a pair of 391 parallel targets. I have used the 391 for all of the clay sports with exception of bunker. Actually I have tried it on bunker, but having to load 2 and then immediately remove one and immediately move off my station to the next was a bit of a nuisance, so I decided it was not the ideal. Works great on everything else.

There's the issue with the shell shuffling that you mention; then there's the ejected shells annoying other shooters. And, the biggest issue IMO is the increasing prevalence of voice-activated release systems. A competitor using a semi-auto is at a disadvantage due to penalties applied when targets are inadvertently released by the sound of the receiver slamming into battery. Single barreled guns also put the competitor at a disadvantage because they don't offer choke selection between the first shot and the second.
 
I shoot both an o/u and semi for targets and like both. For waterfowl I'll always choose the semi. Easier to manage in the blind than an o/u.

The Browning Silver is a good gun and while 3-1/2" isn't necessary (I don't own one) there's nothing wrong with having it.

But for a single do everything shotgun a Beretta 391 remains my first choice.
 
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