Seized screw

cdill

cdill

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Looking for suggestions:

Have a pistol with a front sight that takes different inserts but cannot loosen the retaining screw.

My normal procedure that has always worked is to soak the offending screw with Kroil and then put a plastic bag around it to keep the oil on it an just stick it away in the safe and forget about it for a weeks or months and come back and voila the screw is loose. Has not worked in this case though......

That works like a charm when it is rust or crud causing the seizing; however, in this case I have a gut feeling that some idiot has used locktite on that screw. Complicating matters is the fact the screw is a Phillips rather than slot which I always find one cannot get as good a leverage on without the risk of slipping and indeed the screw head was partly fouled when I got the gun.

Thanks in advance for your help.
CD
 
Loctite melts and acts like a grease at up around about 300F. That's hotter than boiling water so you'll need to use a torch. But it's not hot enough to affect any heat treatment that the parts might have. So heat it until water sizzles on it and then keep going about half again as long as it took to get to the water sizzling point. Obviously you'll need to hold the gun with a thick leather glove. And just be sure the screwdriver is as good a fit as you can manage.

If that doesn't do the trick then it's time for a half stick o' dynamite......
 
And they do make Philip drivers designed for removing screws... little 'cuts' on one side of the edges designed to hold better ... but heat should do it... and hold it is a padded vise so you can put all your weight on the screw... if you are working on guns and don't have a padded vise that is your first mistake.
 
guntech said:
And they do make Philip drivers designed for removing screws... little 'cuts' on one side of the edges designed to hold better ... but heat should do it... and hold it is a padded vise so you can put all your weight on the screw... if you are working on guns and don't have a padded vise that is your first mistake.
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Someone should make an election promise to ban Philips screws from the face of the earth. They would get my vote!

One issue is that there is a Japanese standard for Philips screws which differs from the American standard. The big difference is that the point is longer on an American screwdriver, and it hits bottom in the middle of the screw head before it fully engages on the side grooves, especially if it is a Japanese screw. An American screwdriver can often be "improved" by filing the very point down a little.
 
Heat will soften the Loctite and good quality Philips driver with a tight fit will maximize your chances. Push in hard and straight and hope for the best.

+1 on the suggestion to file off the tip, it takes up axial compression force but doesn't contribute to drive torque (meaning it is less than useless).

Failing that, a set of small carbide burrs, a dremel tool and patience can make even the toughest screw disappear from an expensive piece of metal. Lee Valley sells a set for c$28 which works well for screws down to #4.

I have never had success with the "spiral fluted" extractors unless the bolt has first been reduced to a thin shell by drill or dremel. YMMV.

If all else fails, find someone with a tap disintegrator, but that's the nuclear option.

Philips head screws have their uses, but applications where you need maximum drive torque aren't one of them.
 
In addition to the existence of both the Phillips and JIS screws it also doesn't help that most Phillips machine screws and many of the JIS screws I've run into are made from some soft Brie like steel.

On the off chance that it's simply VERY tight and not secured with Loctite an insert and a few good raps to peen the screw a touch can also be used to aid in loosening the darn thing. But if you need to resort to that abuse replace the screw. In fact replace it anyway with a better quality screw. But that won't help much if it is bonded with a thread locking adhesive. So heat first and try, If that doesn't work and there's still some cross point left then do the hammer trick to peen the metal into loosening. Note that the barrel or slide will need to be well supported for this to work.

And a hearty "DITTO ! ! ! !" to Guntech's advice on a vise. If you don't have a good size HEAVY vise securely mounted to a good solid work bench now would be a good time to correct this serious gap in your tool holdings. The MOST used hand tool in my shop is my vise. And it is not at all exaggerating that this should be the case for anyone that tinkers with metal stuff even a few times a year. I use my vise even more than the slotted screwdriver that gets used for almost everything. The "everything" being held in the vise so I can use the screwdriver more effectively.
 
Another good product to have on hand is Lee Valley Screw Grab, a drop in the head of a damaged screw can really increase the amount of bite availlable.
I believe it may just be lapping compound but it's pretty cheap and the bottle I bought years ago is still good. I first tried it working on a friends old wooden boat where we had to remove a lot of screws with stripped heads.

I find torquing in "pulses" while maintaining downward pressure helps to keep the screwdriver seated better then simply torquing till the tip rides up and out of the pocket. Watching for the rise is also a good habit because once it comes out and damages the head your chances keep getting slimmer. Better to recognize that it's not working and try a different attack before the head is damaged further.

Good luck! Attitude goes along way with stubborn fasteners and worn out screw heads......

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Thanks guys. I do have a padded vise which I use.

When I am feeling not stressed I will carefully try the suggestions you mention.

As well, from what I noted when I tried the screw before it does seem to be made of soft metal.

CD
 
Find a hand impact screwdriver. We used to rely on these for steel screws in aluminum motorcycle cases. A sharp rap with a hammer and they loosen the most stubborn stuck screw without ruining the head.
 
petew said:
Find a hand impact screwdriver. We used to rely on these for steel screws in aluminum motorcycle cases. A sharp rap with a hammer and they loosen the most stubborn stuck screw without ruining the head.
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X2. I had this problem with a used Remington 7400. The previous owner decided to use permanent loc tite on the forend bolt. I tried every penetrating oil I had,heat and even put in the freezer and none worked. Finally I decided to put the screwdriver in slot and give it one helluva whack. That broke the loc tite free and out of came.
 
Ultrasonic cleaner might degrade loctite, if that's the problem. Also removes coatings, so consider the finish on the firearm before using it, if you have access to ultrasound.
 
Get a 50W solder iron. Heat it up. Hold it on the screw. That will melt the loctite. Heat the tip of the screwdriver at the same time. Take away the heat, insert the screwdriver, apply torque and tap screwdriver with a light hammer. Hasn't failed me yet.
 
guntech said:
And they do make Philip drivers designed for removing screws... little 'cuts' on one side of the edges designed to hold better ... but heat should do it... and hold it is a padded vise so you can put all your weight on the screw... if you are working on guns and don't have a padded vise that is your first mistake.
Click to expand...

Details, man! Are those the ACR ribbed "cruciform" bits actually made by Philips? Who has these up here? Available from Amazon US;and I see that Apex (who make the bits for Brownells) has the same style, called Torq-Set.

Lee Valley Tools has diamond-coated bits which aid in keeping the bit in place.

Ron AKA said:
Someone should make an election promise to ban Philips screws from the face of the earth.
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Someone told me they were originally designed so that the bit would automatically cam out when the screw was seated by automated systems. So they have their place, although not perhaps as the de facto standard in every US building-supply store (and creeping into ours.)
 
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