Semi vs pump speed comparison

870P

870P

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Kind of agree, however if you're talking double taps or dumping the mag into a single target, a semi is bound to be significantly faster for all but a handful of pump shooters, especially if firing from an awkward position.

I've also seen some highly experienced pump shooters manage to short stroke, including Louis Awerbuck, Chris Costa, and possibly even Jerry Misculek, and that was was just in putting on a demo...
 
When shooting geese coming straight at me and over, with a semi I can get 3 off easy, my pump, while very fast, forces a near vertical shot.
 
I don't know about you guys, but I like having a fixed fore end where I can just lock that hand in place and put my full attention into controlling the gun.

My only real knock with semis are the controls (I really wish someone would think to put the both release in more or less the same position as the action release on the 500/590 pumps) and the weird shuffle feeling when the action cycles on a lot of them.
 
870P said:

Kind of agree, however if you're talking double taps or dumping the mag into a single target, a semi is bound to be significantly faster for all but a handful of pump shooters, especially if firing from an awkward position.

I've also seen some highly experienced pump shooters manage to short stroke, including Louis Awerbuck, Chris Costa, and possibly even Jerry Misculek, and that was was just in putting on a demo...
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In the 60's when I started shooting a pump in the 4 gauges of skeet there were many guys that could outperform a semi and were a pleasure to watch. Model 12's , rem 31' and wingmasters as smooth as glass
I just don't see that any more today with current pump action owners
May have something to do with back in the day many of these guys were putting 10-25,000 rounds a year through their pumps which is not seen today
Bottom line can a pump out perform a semi FOR SURE but in the right hands
Oh yes I still have my original set of skeet wingmasters with the 28 my favorite and what I use again. They will die with me
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
In the 60's when I started shooting a pump in the 4 gauges of skeet there were many guys that could outperform a semi and were a pleasure to watch. Model 12's , rem 31' and wingmasters as smooth as glass
I just don't see that any more today with current pump action owners
May have something to do with back in the day many of these guys were putting 10-25,000 rounds a year through their pumps which is not seen today
Bottom line can a pump out perform a semi FOR SURE but in the right hands
Oh yes I still have my original set of skeet wingmasters with the 28 my favorite and what I use again. They will die with me
Cheers
Click to expand...

Semiauto design has improved considerably compared to back then, while few pumps made in recent times seem to have the potential to be as smooth as the more hand polished vintage ones.

Besides the decline in pump gun fit and finish, there have been lawyer driven mechanical changes that have made them slower in the hands of most shooters.

The reprofiling of the front edges of the 870's action bars that makes it necessary to deliberately push forward to smoothly unlock the action while cycling is one example.

The intent there was to increase the mechanical margin of safety in ensuring that the action remained locked until the firing pressure dropped, because potential liability.

Whatever the case, all else being equal, it makes it makes it considerably more difficult to run those guns fast compared to the older ones.
 
870P said:
Semiauto design has improved considerably compared to back then, while few pumps made in recent times seem to have the potential to be as smooth as the more hand polished vintage ones.

Besides the decline in pump gun fit and finish, there have been lawyer driven mechanical changes that have made them slower in the hands of most shooters.

The reprofiling of the front edges of the 870's action bars that makes it necessary to deliberately push forward to smoothly unlock the action while cycling is one example.

The intent there was to increase the mechanical margin of safety in ensuring that the action remained locked until the firing pressure dropped, because potential liability.

Whatever the case, all else being equal, it makes it makes it considerably more difficult to run those guns fast compared to the older ones.
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Has semi auto design improved ??? I have many makes of modern semi and NONE are designed as well as my Super X 1 's my browning gold 10ga's are close
No modern pumps are smooth compared to say a rem 31 or model 12
I still think a lot of it is lack of use. Even a rough pump will get smooth after 100K rounds and the user masters it since back ion the day it was his only gun which was used almost daily for targets and hunting

All I know is it has been a long time since I sat down to watch a pump shooter that could use it as well or better than a semi which was common to see 50 years ago
Just one man's opinion
Cheers
 
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ComradeVlad said:
Semi auto in experienced hands will always be faster....
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And it will never jam LOL
Today I would have to agree since there are few if any guys left that can handle a pump to out perform one
but that was not always the case

Really it boils down to as someone stated the eye-blinking speed of modern semi-automatic shotguns are physically capable of faster cycling. So in purely mathematical terms they are quicker BUT. When used for hunting or target shooting where shots must be aimed with an inherent delay between shots, expert pump gunners have proven to be just as effective.
Cheers
 
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3macs1 said:
Has semi auto design improved ??? I have many makes of modern semi and NONE are designed as well as my Super X 1 's my browning gold 10ga's are close
No modern pumps are smooth compared to say a rem 31 or model 12
I still think a lot of it is lack of use. Even a rough pump will get smooth after 100K rounds and the user masters it since back ion the day it was his only gun which was used almost daily for targets and hunting

All I know is it has been a long time since I sat down to watch a pump shooter that could use it as well or better than a semi which was common to see 50 years ago
Just one man's opinion
Cheers
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Recent semi designs cycle very quickly, can handle a great variety of loads and are usually pretty good about taming their recoil charactistics. From a technical standpoint they are that much better even if they aren't as well crafted as their vintage counterparts.

Many if not most recently manuactured pumps will never be as smooth as the oldies no matter how many rounds are put through them, unless maybe they hand honed, as the action components are unlikely to mate up properly if they start out too rough.
 
870P said:
Recent semi designs cycle very quickly, can handle a great variety of loads and are usually pretty good about taming their recoil charactistics. From a technical standpoint they are that much better even if they aren't as well crafted as their vintage counterparts.

Many if not most recently manuactured pumps will never be as smooth as the oldies no matter how many rounds are put through them, unless maybe they hand honed, as the action components are unlikely to mate up properly if they start out too rough.
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I hear you Two things I wonder however
How many modern semi's will be still pushing out rounds in 25-40 plus years as my batch of super x1's still do. Too many alloys and plastic IMO to do so in modern firearms

I also remember buying 4 browning gold semi's new in the early 90's and still have them 2 12ga , 2 10ga. They were everywhere in duck blinds and a hell of a gun for years but now I don't see too many and I wonder what happened to them. I have also the winchester x2 and x3 which are also good guns but not built as well as the original golds again see X3's everywhere but few x2 now

On the pumps honestly I have a new wingmaster in fact a couple of them and a new ithaca 37 and both are pretty dam smooth to the point hard to tell a difference from the vintage ones of which I have a lot of in all makes and models to compare them against
Smoothest pump I own are my rem 31's swear the action was on ball bearings
Some guys collected hand guns me pump actions and semi's :)
Cheers
 
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3macs1 said:
I hear you Two things I wonder however
How many modern semi's will be still pushing out rounds in 25-40 plus years as my batch of super x1's still do. Too many alloys and plastic IMO to do so in modern firearms

I also remember buying 4 browning gold semi's new in the early 90's and still have them 2 12ga , 2 10ga. They were everywhere in duck blinds and a hell of a gun for years but now I don't see too many and I wonder what happened to them. I have also the winchester x2 and x3 which are also good guns but not built as well as the original golds again see X3's everywhere but few x2 now

On the pumps honestly I have a new wingmaster in fact a couple of them and a new ithaca 37 and both are pretty dam smooth to the point hard to tell a difference from the vintage ones of which I have a lot of in all makes and models to compare them against
Smoothest pump I own are my rem 31's swear the action was on ball bearings
Some guys collected hand guns me pump actions and semi's :)
Cheers
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Most of the new designs haven't been around long enough to establish a long term track record, however the Benellis have been around for a bit and some of them have hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. Plastic and aluminum or not, they seem to hold up well enough.
 
It all depends how close the targets are to each other.

If they're all lined up directly beside each other, then the auto is faster. No argument there.

But if the targets are spread apart a few feet, that advantage is gone.
 
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1763359173945020

Can't shoot a pump that fast, no matter who you are....:)

But for truly aimed shots, especially at birds, it's hard to say one is actually "quicker" than the other. You still have to recover from the recoil, and operating the action on a pump should happen during that moment. Just like when you make a shot at an animal with your bolt action rifle, you should be reloading as you settle down to get the crosshairs in the animal again in case a follow up shot is needed.

I think you should use whatever works best for you. Some people really have issues pushing the slide all the way forward in a pump, and some semi's will jam from time to time. Seems most waterfowlers are picking semi's these days, right or wrong.
 
Gatehouse said:
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1763359173945020

Can't shoot a pump that fast, no matter who you are....:)

But for truly aimed shots, especially at birds, it's hard to say one is actually "quicker" than the other. You still have to recover from the recoil, and operating the action on a pump should happen during that moment. Just like when you make a shot at an animal with your bolt action rifle, you should be reloading as you settle down to get the crosshairs in the animal again in case a follow up shot is needed.

I think you should use whatever works best for you. Some people really have issues pushing the slide all the way forward in a pump, and some semi's will jam from time to time. Seems most waterfowlers are picking semi's these days, right or wrong.
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The big difference I've found (I'm not a big guy, and recently switched to shooting lefty because of my dominant eye) is getting the pump forward in a less than ideal stance can be a challenge. For instance if something is coming right at me, as I swing towards the sky it gets increasingly difficult to get the slide all the way forward, whereas I just have to slide my hand a bit closer to my body on my semi.

As for reliability, I think it's a moot point with a decent semi these days. You'll have more issues with ammo than the gun itself (pump or semi) in my experience.
 
Depends the pump, the semi, the targets and the shooter...
In a 3gun scenario my Beretta 1301 is fast to cycle, soft to shoot and easy to transition to the next target, if a pump beats me I'll give it to the shooter not the gun.
My Remington 1100 is slow to cycle and feels like an old typewriter cycling...soft but all over and slow...kind of "pump-ish"...
Semi's have changed over the years as have the shooters and both platforms have their place.
In the field I pack a pump, at the range it's a semi.
 
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