Serious 1911 Purchace. Need some insight.

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RDevigne

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HI guys,

I'm hoping to get some info from you CGN'rs that own or have had experience with the higher end 1911's. I'm looking into getting competitive maybe next year and am currently debating which brand to go with. Now I already pretty much know all the basics when in comes to the internals and how you will pay more for ambi safeties, extended slide releases, wider extrators, full lenght recoil rode, sites, match grade barrel etc... I also realise that one will pay more for the kinds of serrations on the front and back of slide and checkering on the front strap. What I need help with is to know what other factors dictate price and quality. I'm looking at what Para, S&W, Springfield, Kimber,STI have to offer, and their prices seem to start at around 1200$ for a 1911 with all the bells and whistles and then go up to 2500$ range for their duo tone custom checkering etc.. Here's where I get totally confused:
When I look at Ed brown, Les Baer and those types the price sky rockets in the 3000$ and up to 6000$ for 1911's which apart from Ed browns Bobtail, they seemingly look to have all the same bells and whisltes as the others. Is paying the extra couple of grand for those really just paying for the name? Or is there something else involved.
What i'm looking for, is a high quality, very reliable, accurate and beautiful 1911 that if taken cared for will last me a lifetime. Also, keeping in mind that this would also br used as my primary in competition. I'm not interested in Open Gun comps, just in the metalic, iron sights comp. I have my eyes set on Rob Leatham ;) .
Any and all info you guys can provide me I would love to hear it. For example, is there an advantage in having a ramped barrel as opposed to not having one? I know alot will come down to personal prefferance but im looking for the major things that set them apart.
Also, just to let you know where I've been leaning to as far as buying, the STI Ranger, Para LTX, Springfield TRP are some of the ones that have tickled my fancy. Of course, then theres the question of caliber. 9mm or 45ACP ? I currenty shoot and love 9mm. In the competitions that I'm wanting to take part in, will run into some trouble with that caliber? I know most of the competitors use 45ACP, im just not sure if that's solely out of prefference.

:redface: I know this is a loaded thread, I just want to male sure that in my next purchace I make the best choice possible. I've for sure narrowed it down to using the 1911 after trying many different frames. I even though the BHP was going to be my partner, but after the last few trips to the range and the results ive been having with the 1911. It's a no brainer for me. Thanks in advance for your help, take care :popCorn:
 
By competition, I'm assuming that you are talking about IPSC and not bulleye.

Do you prefer blue steel or stainless?
Do you want a rail or no rail?

a 1911 should be in 45acp... then again, 9mm in a 1911 plateform makes for an interesting range gun!

Personnaly, that's what I would call a "nice" 45
mainimage.jpg

Valtro 1998A1
 
I own 1911s in 9mm 40 s&w and .45 ACP

For competition 40 is the way to go unless you're getting an IPSC open gun, then go 38 super.

As for brands, I prefer Kimber for single stacks (1911) and STI for double stacks (2011).

If you are shooting IDPA any of the guns mentioned in any of the calibers mentioned will do. If you are shooting IPSC, you have two choices based on dollar amounts.

For $1100 you can buy a Kimber in 40 cal or for $2300 you can buy a double stack STI in 40. Both guns put you in the standard division. The STI are great guns and worth the money. The mags are +/- $100 each and holsters are $200. As you can see the STI is expensive in a double stack, but all the big name shooters shoot them or a variation of them.

I just sold my Edge 5.0 and am now shooting a new Kimber in 40. Tripp industries makes great mags (10 round) for single stacks.

PM me if you need anymore advice.

Here is the obligatory photo that shows my Edge before I sold it and missing my new Kimber in the bunch.

IMG_0364.jpg


IMG_0360.jpg


My Kimber in 40 is identical to my Kimber in 9mm shown below.

IMG_2218.jpg
 
I have just recently acquired a new Para SX1640J. It is a model made for IPSC Standard/IDPA Limited. It is priced about the same as the STI Edge and has all the bells and whistles you need to go out and shoot competitively from the get go.

Heres a few pics of the gun:
ParaTJ003.jpg


ParaTJ018.jpg


ParaTJ017.jpg


Shoots very nicely as you would expect, so its another contender in your search for a higher end 1911.
 
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RDevigne said:
What I need help with is to know what other factors dictate price and quality...
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Big fancy advertisement campaign, factory shooters and sponsorship do not come cheap... So with most major brand, a good chuck on the price tag is going that way.

If Dlask wasn't so busy with the SDM-12 shotgun, I'd say you should have a look at is 1911. The money is spent on time consuming hand fitting labour instead of big flashy advertisement.
1911_pro_r.jpg


I don't own one of his pistol (yet ;) ) but the few examples of his work I got to play with were simply beautifull! (And you got to love that "Made in Canada" roll mark!)
 
competition in ipsc means 2 thing

1) double stack

2) 40 s&w

so your looking at STI or SVI

sti executive is a very nice one IMHO
 
4string said:
If you are shooting IDPA any of the guns mentioned in any of the calibers mentioned will do.
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Not necessarily true. Full length dust covers (made of steel) are not allow in IDPA 'Custom Defensive Pistol' (CDP) or 'Enhanced Service Pistol' (ESP)divisions. And bull barrels aren't allowed in CDP/ESP in guns with barrels longer than 4.2"
 
Dragoon said:
Not necessarily true. Full length dust covers (made of steel) are not allow in IDPA 'Custom Defensive Pistol' (CDP) or 'Enhanced Service Pistol' (ESP)divisions. And bull barrels aren't allowed in CDP/ESP in guns with barrels longer than 4.2"
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I agree. I meant to say calibers, not guns. ;)
 
What exactly is a full lenght dust cover? And why would that be considered illegal? It almost sounds complicated to chose the right gun to be able to compete. Just so you are aware, I am not interested in Open Gun competition, just iron rights with stock style pistols. I know theres a certain power gun ratio that is needed so .40 and .45 are better caliber choices because using a 9mm would require loading some seriously hot loads. If i understand this max power this properly. As far as Dust covers and barrels, i didnt know these were not allowed. This is good that i get this understanding before chosing a particualr model. For Iron sight or stock division, ( In the Bianchi Cup they call it metallic division) I would imagine there being much more choice as opposed to STI and SVI. Also the kind of competition i'd be interested in would be single stack only. I've been reading that shooting guns the way they were initially designed is starting to pick up more momentum in the states and single stack, iron sight, stock competitions are becoming more popular. When i say stock, they are still upgrading internals with full lenght guide rods, match trigger, barrel and slide, sights etc.. just no hi cap business and no mounted devices. I like that idea of competition better as not only is it more practical and economical, it keeps the sport grounded to its roots sorta speak. Anyways, that's just my opinion, i have no problems with people shooting open gun, i love to watch it as a matter if fact. I just prefer the look and shooting of stock pistols.

I've also been pointed into the direction of the SIG 1911 line up. I've heard good things about them. Anybody here have the opportunity to shoot any of their models? I was looking at the TTT model. Just when i thought i as loosing my mind with the current amount of choices, another line gets dropped on me. lol. :popCorn:
 
Have you talked to any of the IPSC guys at the firing line? They meet on wednesday evening to practice and would be a huge resource. That's where I wanted to be tonight instead of studying. If your sold on the 1911 that's one thing but I was surprised to see how many guys are using CZ's here for IPSC. My next gun might just be a CZ...
 
Dust cover is the part of the gun under the slide,forward of the trigger guard. It keeps dust out.The full length dust cover on guns such as the STI Edge adds weight and helps reduce recoil.

IDPA is supposedly about concealment, guns such as the STI Edge are not easily concealed. More importantly, the guy who owns IDPA owns Wilson Combat, which does not produce guns such as the STI, and the rules are tailored accordingly.

You can't max out 9mm or .38 super to make Major powerfactor in IPSC Standard Division, the gun must have a minimum calibre of .40/10mm to score major. This prevents idiots loading 9mm para well past maximum allowable pressures in stock type guns. You can get more .40 cal rounds into a magazine than .45 cal rounds, and the recoil impulse of the .40 is faster allowing quiicker recovery times. For this reason .40 cal is the way to go if you want to shoot IPSC internationally. As Canada has a 10 round magazine restriction there is less advantage in buying the .40, if you are only shooting in Canada.

Open guns are almost always custom built with barrels that can take the excess pressure of major, which is why IPSC Open Division allows 9mm/38 super to be loaded to major, with a minimum bullet weight restriction.

IDPA Custol Defensive Pistol Division requires a minimum calibre of .45.

In summary, for IDPA & IPSC, get a .45. For IPSC only, get a .40.

for more info on 1911s, check out www.1911forum.com
 
Radagast said:
Dust cover is the part of the gun under the slide,forward of the trigger guard. It keeps dust out.The full length dust cover on guns such as the STI Edge adds weight and helps reduce recoil.

IDPA is supposedly about concealment, guns such as the STI Edge are not easily concealed. More importantly, the guy who owns IDPA owns Wilson Combat, which does not produce guns such as the STI, and the rules are tailored accordingly.

You can't max out 9mm or .38 super to make Major powerfactor in IPSC Standard Division, the gun must have a minimum calibre of .40/10mm to score major. This prevents idiots loading 9mm para well past maximum allowable pressures in stock type guns. You can get more .40 cal rounds into a magazine than .45 cal rounds, and the recoil impulse of the .40 is faster allowing quiicker recovery times. For this reason .40 cal is the way to go if you want to shoot IPSC internationally. As Canada has a 10 round magazine restriction there is less advantage in buying the .40, if you are only shooting in Canada.

Open guns are almost always custom built with barrels that can take the excess pressure of major, which is why IPSC Open Division allows 9mm/38 super to be loaded to major, with a minimum bullet weight restriction.

IDPA Custol Defensive Pistol Division requires a minimum calibre of .45.

In summary, for IDPA & IPSC, get a .45. For IPSC only, get a .40.

for more info on 1911s, check out www.1911forum.com
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Sweet thanks for all the info. That dust civer thing has been bothering for a while now, and not that i know what it is, i feel like slapping my forehead.

I haven't talked to anybody in the ipsc at the firing line. I'm only there on weekends as i live out of town. I will have to make it down there on a wednesday :). Thanks again for all the info guys, this is really helping out.

Cheers,

Rob

** Oh, i forgot to mention, that yes, i am sold on the 1911 frame, not only do i find myself shooting better with them, I just love the history factor as well. :)
 
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Radagast said:
Dust cover is the part of the gun under the slide,forward of the trigger guard. It keeps dust out.The full length dust cover on guns such as the STI Edge adds weight and helps reduce recoil.

IDPA is supposedly about concealment, guns such as the STI Edge are not easily concealed. More importantly, the guy who owns IDPA owns Wilson Combat, which does not produce guns such as the STI, and the rules are tailored accordingly.

You can't max out 9mm or .38 super to make Major powerfactor in IPSC Standard Division, the gun must have a minimum calibre of .40/10mm to score major. This prevents idiots loading 9mm para well past maximum allowable pressures in stock type guns. You can get more .40 cal rounds into a magazine than .45 cal rounds, and the recoil impulse of the .40 is faster allowing quiicker recovery times. For this reason .40 cal is the way to go if you want to shoot IPSC internationally. As Canada has a 10 round magazine restriction there is less advantage in buying the .40, if you are only shooting in Canada.

Open guns are almost always custom built with barrels that can take the excess pressure of major, which is why IPSC Open Division allows 9mm/38 super to be loaded to major, with a minimum bullet weight restriction.

IDPA Custol Defensive Pistol Division requires a minimum calibre of .45.

In summary, for IDPA & IPSC, get a .45. For IPSC only, get a .40.

for more info on 1911s, check out www.1911forum.com
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Well said, Radagast - an additional Canadian advantage of 40 over 45 is that once fired brass is plentiful throughout the country, so it's cheaper to shoot.
 
Keep in mind that Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers where IDPA co-founders - so I would not base it out on the "Its not a Wilson design crap" comment

The idea as that in a combat sitiuation with a stoppage that jams the slide - you can bash the front of the slide in a conventional configuration.


I'm not a 1911 mastersmith -- but very few of the stock guns in Canada are build for a real carry/shooter.

I stay away from full length guide rods for the same reason I would not use a dust cover.

my work 1911
1911-Iraq043.jpg


built lovingly from the ground up here on a 1943 USGI Ithaca frame.


If you willing to spend money for the Kind Ding-a-Ling of 1911's -- ask Questar to bring in a NightHawk Custom - they have several models are really are the heat in a gtg 1911.


That said - I shoot people not IPSC - so my needs and wants will be different from you...
 
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P&D has a Para in Commander size on their website for a great price (under 1K) you can buy a ton of ammo with the left over cash (and some reloading dies)
 
Dlask took my buddies Norchinko crap 1911 and made it shoot quite fine, I've heard he can build one sweet pistol. Try finding a custom gunsmith out your way, just remember to check his referances. I have a Gary Flack prepped 1954 GI issue .45 and it is wonderful, just shy of "full race" but I know he made a few IPSC 1911's too.
 
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