Service Rifle Showdown

[Ardent]

Chose this forum, as this is not necessarily intrinsic to service rifle competition, just a military rifle comparison.

Well, it's hot here in BC and I want to go shooting plus I just finished my TRW M14, so I've decided to do something interesting over the next couple weeks.

There's so many PE90/AR/M14 versus each other threads these days, I figure I might as well try and set the record straight among my own toys.

I will try for the best 5 round group, with stock sights and ball ammo, at 100 and 200 yards for each rifle. Pretty straightforward comparison, but it should prove interesting. If I get adventurous, I'll average the groups sizes for each rifle for 3 strings. I'll try and add basic remarks on the rifles in use for those who don't shoot them and may be curious.

The rifles involved are all new or within a few hundred rounds of new and are:

-Swiss Arms PE90 Classic Green

-Colt AR-15 A2 HBAR

-TRW'd Norinco M-14S (only thing Norc left is the stripped receiver)

Expect results a week or two from today, as I'll get the finishing touches and ammo together by then.

 

[Urban_Ops]

I hope you don't feel bad when the least expensive rifle shoots the best
Looking forward to seeing your results.

 

[Ardent]

I hope you don't feel bad when the least expensive rifle shoots the best
Looking forward to seeing your results.

That would be the AR, it's less than half the cost of either of the other two. We shall see, will be interesting.

 

[MPI]

x1 for the SIG at those ranges.

 

[beltfed]

Who cares about the rifles, that carpet ROCKS!!!

 

[sparrow]

That showdown happened a long time ago...the Stoner creation won...hands down, this is merely a re-enactment with the outcome already known.

 

[Ardent]

That showdown happened a long time ago...the Stoner creation won...hands down, this is merely a re-enactment with the outcome already known.

I almost spilt my drink...


My personal biases;


Which feels best? AR.

Looks best? Probably AR again.

Ergo's? AR.

Best engineering? Probably the PE90.

Most natural for me to shoot? M14.

 

[Ardent]

Who cares about the rifles, that carpet ROCKS!!!

Hoping this isn't sarcasm as I do quite like it myself, and it's worth more than all the rifles on it...

 

[A-zone]

Not to hijack the thread, but that's a very attractive carpet.

 

[LeftFootOfDoom]

hey, can you get a better pic of that little table in the top left?

Not sure about the sig, but from the US competitions the AR beats the M14 pretty regularly.

 

[Ardent]

Woke up at 1pm, and saw the sun, figured I should do something. So I hit the road, picked up a bunch of 62gr American Eagle, and a bunch of Port surplus for the M14.

Only did the 100 yards for all three as I got out late.

Well, the results weren't all that world shaking, but interesting:

PE90 best 100 yard group: 1.5"

AR15 best 100 yard group (embarrassing, I just couldn't get it to shoot :redface): 2"

M14 best 100 yard group: 1.75"

All were 5 round groups, benched, with the butt supported.

To be honest, I was rooting for the M14 It has the most blood sweat and tears invested in it... But it was not to be, and the PE90 was easier to shoot well all around, with the least variability in group size.

The AR dissapointed me, but I'm certain it's capable of better, I was simply shooting it poorly, but all my groups with it were 2"-3". Just can't shoot AR's that well...

Tiring of 100 yard iron sighted groups with the three (and tenderized a bit by the M14), and being intruiged by the PE90, I put a Leupold Mk4 M1 on the PE90 and got serious. At 100 yards, it shot mediocre 1" to 1.25" groups consistently with 62gr ball, but on a whim I tried 200 yards with 45gr varmint loads and it shot an honest to goodness 1" group on the first attempt! I didn't beat that, but it came close.

So, I came away with a greater appreciation for the PE90, it has the best sights and best trigger. Ergonomically, the selector could be better placed ever so slightly, and the cocking handle is on the wrong side It's heavy, which should absorb recoil, but the lighter AR still seems to deliver less recoil, not that it really matters with .223, but considerations nonetheless.

All in all, the PE90 became for the first time my favoured among the group, taking the M14's place easily.

I still have a good many grievances with the PE90, it's good, but not perfect. It did however, certainly deliver the accuracy, and impressed me, moving up in my standings. Now I just need to get a smaller Mk4....

 

[Skullboy]

IMHO, any of those rifle could shoot the smallest group of the day.

AWhile all of them are accurate rifles,I think it is the human variable that really makes the outcome.

SKBY.

 

[Ardent]

AWhile all of them are accurate rifles,I think it is the human variable that really makes the outcome.

SKBY.

Couldn't agree more You hit the nail on the head, while the PE90 is working best for me, I know there are many guys on this forum who could have outshot me without much issue with the AR.

 

[nelly]

Heck, my 1954 Lee Enfield No4Mk2, whose sights need a little "aiming off" outshot my buddies AR the other day....

But I'm biased...



Neal

 

[lcq]

The AR is like the Ruger 10/22 and the Rem 700. Three of the most customizable rifles ever built. There is absolutely nothing you can not buy for an AR. I would say with a small amount of work you could get it shooting better than most bolts. The Swiss is what you see is what you get, no aftermarket stuff.

Brian