Severe lead fouling issue

TACTICAL111

TACTICAL111

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Have a Lonewolf 4 port barrel on a G34 and I have just recently started to sling lead exclusively. Prior was the stock barrel with copper plated.
The ports on the top of the barrel remove large amounts of lead from the bullet during firing.

After my range trip Sat & Sun of last weekend I am still trying to rid the barrel of severe lead fouling. Around 1500 rounds worth.
I have shot lead prior in a 1911 and GSG 1911 and had no serious issues (though it did take longer) and I did have to scrub.

I have been working on the barrel for the last 3 nights!
It has been soaking in Butch Bore Shine solution all of those nights and vigorous cleaning with a copper 22 cal brush each evening (toughest thing I could find).

70% is gone, but there are areas that just will NOT budge and they are built up around the ports on the inside top of the barrel.

Don't want to stop with lead because I am very pleased with the accuracy.

There must be an easier way ;) I broke down and hence the post.
Thanks.
 
Switch back and forth between solvents, it seems to help speed up the process. At this point you just gotta get all of the lead removed. Once lead starts building up it will continue to do so at a faster and faster pace.

~ Check for burrs in the port region.
~ Check that bullet velocity is not too high.
~ Check that the bullets are not too soft, wrong diameter, and properly lubed.
 
Your bullets are too soft, and you are pushing them too fast would be my guess.

9mm is a pretty high pressure round, and moves much faster than a .45 acp, and lead will require very different loads than plated or jacketed bullets.

What kind of powder are you using and what weight bullets?

Also most solvents do little to help remove lead, and when I was going through the same thing as you I learned a few tricks from this site.

The best way to clean the lead out is to keep everything dry! There is a tool called the Lewis Lead Remover you can look up, but what I ended up with is a .38 caliber brush, and wrapped strands from a copper(use a magnet to be sure it's pure copper) scouring pad. You strip the long strands from the scouring pad, and wrap them around the brush. These strands make the brush fit very tight, and scrape the lead out of the barrel very well. Add a few strands when it starts to loosen up, and you will see strips of lead come out.

You can thank me later. ;)
 
mlehtovaara said:
9mm is a pretty high pressure round, and moves much faster than a .45 acp, and lead will require very different loads than plated or jacketed bullets.

What kind of powder are you using and what weight bullets?
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1/2 were DRG RN 125 gr with Titegroup @ 3.6 ish. OAL @ 1.087. Other 1/2 were Wolf Conical 125 gr with the same charge and length. No issues with performance, just fouling. Can't be sure if one or either made any difference.

Check for burrs in the port region.
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Wouldn't call them burrs per say, but the interior port edges are fairly sharp and are not "polished" or "chamfered" so to speak.

I'm sure you get my point. Not even sure that would be possible come to think of it :confused:

you will see strips of lead come out.
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I had that with the GSG. I had to push the brush in SO hard at one point that a I heard a "SNAP!" and then out of the end of the barrel came a perfect round lead sleeve. Always remember that.
 
A 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar is known to dissolve lead. Might want to give that a shot.
 
Hello,

If all else fails, you can use mercury. This requires special equipment for safety, however, and finding someone with said equipment might be problematic. It's getting that way in the US as well.

If you'd like to send me some bullets -- just 100 or so -- I can try plating them using a process I developed.

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The above are .45acp.

A friend of mine ran my cast 0.452" bullets thus treated through his Tommy and he said it didn't even foul the Cutt's Comp, which is better than he'd seen with even full metal jacketed bullets.

If you like it, then maybe we can work something out in the future, or I can just let you in on my process. It's not hard. I don't know what the rules are about shipping bullets to you across the border.

Regards,

Josh
 
TACTICAL111 said:
1/2 were DRG RN 125 gr with Titegroup @ 3.6 ish. OAL @ 1.087. Other 1/2 were Wolf Conical 125 gr with the same charge and length. No issues with performance, just fouling. Can't be sure if one or either made any difference.
Click to expand...

That load isn't too hot, but seems a pretty short OAL which can raise the pressure and velocities.

Your problem is likely the bullets being undersized. I had the same issue with DRG bullets in my SR9. No matter what load I put through it I would get leading. The bullet is too small, and doesn't obturate/seal the bore quick enough and allows gases to blow by which causes the leading.

If you want to continue to get the best results with lead, you are gonna have to slug your bore, and find what size it is. Then find some bullets the right size, or cast your own, or find someone to custom size them for you. A member here Ben Hunchak, or Bullet Barn will custom size them for you, but not sure on the prices.

With the price of plated bullets these days, and the cleaning, and health issues with lead, I don't find it worth while.

This is why I don't bother with lead bullets anymore.
 
mlehtovaara said:
It can do some harm to the gun to if let sit too long, and besides then you are left with a sloppy mess of crap.

Much easier to just scrape the lead out mechanically.
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I'm not sure how much of the OP's post you read but it sure doesn't sound like scraping it out is working very well.

As for a sloppy mess of crap, have you ever cleaned a gun??
 
AK said:
I'm not sure how much of the OP's post you read but it sure doesn't sound like scraping it out is working very well.

As for the sloppy mess of crap, have you ever cleaned a gun??
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f:P:

Yes because a fitted brush wrapped heavily in copper strands is the same as using a .22lr brush in a 9mm? Using a rather loose fitting copper brush is hardly the right tool for the job.

And if the OP's leading issue is as bad as he describes I know exactly where he is at. I started a thread just like this a few years ago, and guess which method worked best?

It wasn't the peroxide!

The copper strands wrapped around the brush over and over form a rather odd looking scraping tool of sorts. There is no comparison to using just a copper brush.

Google the "Lewis Lead Remover" which is about the single best way to remove lead. This is just a cheaper way of accomplishing the same thing.

There is also a product that is a thick cloth that is supposed to clean up lead pretty well but can't remember the name. It was another suggestion here, but I stopped looking after finding out how well the copper scouring pad, and bore brush worked.

As for your idea, did you know that Vinegar is actually a great tool for removing bluing from a gun to refinish it? Not something I want to be putting anywhere near my guns!

Playing with harsh corrosive chemicals, and expensive guns is always a stupid idea! There is a reason we use solvents designed to be used on guns, and not just anything to clean them.

And if you really want to suggest a chemical solution the single best way to dissolve lead is "Mercury". But just like with peroxide I wouldn't recommend it.
 
Good lord, you make it sound as if pouring peroxide/vinegar into a gun will destroy it worse than ten cases of corrosive ammo. I put vinegar on my fries and I use peroxide to clean open wounds for Christ's sakes. A solution of 5% peroxide and vinegar is not going to dissolve your gun like AUG mags in acetone.
 
AK said:
Good lord, you make it sound as if pouring peroxide/vinegar into a gun will destroy it worse than ten cases of corrosive ammo. I put vinegar on my fries and I use peroxide to clean open wounds for Christ's sakes. A solution of 5% peroxide and vinegar is not going to dissolve your gun like AUG mags in acetone.
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It will remove the bluing very quickly though if you get it on the wrong spots! Like I said it is the vinegar, not the peroxide that does this.

Peroxide I am not so concerned with, but when it is now a black muck containing dissolved lead, it becomes something I want nothing to do with. I am not the type to wear a gas mask and rubber gloves when I clean my guns, but this method might have me doing just that.

Like I have already mentioned, I have had the same issue as the OP, and found the copper scouring pad method works really well, and doesn't involve harsh chemicals. I have tried your method, and have no inclination to do it again.

If the OP wants to spend some cash the Lewis Lead remover works very well, but I am cheap.
 
I can understand the concerns about damaging finish, that wasn't an aspect I'd considered. The OP seemed frustrated and I figured this might be an alternative.

I respectfully disagree with your concerns about the potential health risks of using the solution though. I use G96 on my guns and it has a very prominent skull and crossbones on the front so it's no friend to your body either. And regardless of how you clean your guns you will be exposed to lead, the trick is managing it properly. I would think you'd be subject to more lead exposure when firing an exposed base bullet than using this method of cleaning.

In any case, a good point about finish removal!
 
A Chore Boy 100% copper pot scrubber wrapped as suggested around a wire cleaning brush and you will have all the lead out in about four strokes. Ok maybe five. Use Hoppes to clean up the copper staining and you will be good to go. Your bullets are either to hard or to soft for the velocities you are running. My guess is they are undersized which is causing gas cutting. Lead boolits for 9MM are best sized at .357. If you are running them at .356 then you will get leading and likely some keyholing as well. As an aside what kind of lube are you using?

As an aside the lead particles you get from your barrel aren't going to cause your hair to fall out. Lead isn't absorbed through the skin either. The primers containing lead offer far more risk to your health than what you are dealing with.

Take Care

Bob
 
I use the Lewis Lead Remover, works well. I also have the lead removing cloth (forget the brand name, it was a long time ago), the Lewis works better. The chemicals work, but are messy and have disposal issues. As to the loads, adjust your OAL, and try gas checks on your bullets. Should solve the problem. With gas checks I can run 357's up to 1500 fps without leading. FWIW - dan
 
Dan good comments. For 9MM though there sn't any reason he should ned gas checks. Proper sizing and alloy should solve his problems. I've driven 9MM through my CZ4 Storm over 1600 fps without leading and no gas checks. It really is just a matter of sizing your boolit to the gun to eliminate gas cutting. Using a soft lube will also solve leading in handgun cartridges.

Take Care

Bob
 
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