Shimming and unitizing: either one or both?
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soldering?!?!
dont solder it, TIG it! unless your talking about silver soldering it.
either way, when i TIG'd mine i used no shims and flipped the gas nut upsidedown. it went from tight at 9 o'clock to being snug at 4 and tight at 6.
most of the ones that ive seen done went the same way.
The one's I welded were really tight on the barrel and didn't need shimming afterwards, You had to tap them back into place on the barrel. Its possible you might get unlucky and have the nut not tight at 6 oclock, but that might not be of any consequence if the gas system is tight as hell on the barrel.
HUNGRY,
are you teaching "Unitising" at your clinics??
Do you have any documented proof that unitising will shrink your group size .... and of course,
keep your pecker from falling off?
Thomas / M14DR of the Wet Coast M14 clinics, is a fan of unitising, and sometimes offers it at the clinics.
BUT,
personally I prefer to leave these parts dis attached, or else re-engineer the entire gas system/forend [ full float the barrel at the op rod guide, and forget about barrel tensioning all together].
Based on my personal experience accurised M14 rifles,
I could detect little or no difference in accuracy with or without the unitising.
AND,
if the welding isn't done just right, you have a chance to blister the chrome lining of the gas cylinder, or distort the bore. With the Stainless GI gas assemblies, any distortion can be corrected by honing back into round. But with chrome lined bits that are welded ...
YPMMV!
PS: the best 10 shot SUB MOA group I've ever seen from an M14 was from a NON-unitised rifle .... it was a standard 14 that I tweaked, and it shot a teensy bit better than my factory unitised SA M1A Super Match SS HBAR ... like maybe 1/4" better.
PPS: for those with more money than brains,
I have a NEW match prepped and UNITISED Norinco gas assembly available in the EE.
Best advice on the M14 rifles I can give anyone, is that the M14 can be very sensitive to variations in ammunition. So before investing in any accuracy upgrade, spend your money on ammo, lots of different brands of ammo, to find the loads that shoot best in your particular rifle.
LAZ 1
are you teaching "Unitising" at your clinics??
Do you have any documented proof that unitising will shrink your group size .... and of course,
keep your pecker from falling off?
Thomas / M14DR of the Wet Coast M14 clinics, is a fan of unitising, and sometimes offers it at the clinics.
BUT,
personally I prefer to leave these parts dis attached, or else re-engineer the entire gas system/forend [ full float the barrel at the op rod guide, and forget about barrel tensioning all together].
Based on my personal experience accurised M14 rifles,
I could detect little or no difference in accuracy with or without the unitising.
AND,
if the welding isn't done just right, you have a chance to blister the chrome lining of the gas cylinder, or distort the bore. With the Stainless GI gas assemblies, any distortion can be corrected by honing back into round. But with chrome lined bits that are welded ...
YPMMV!
PS: the best 10 shot SUB MOA group I've ever seen from an M14 was from a NON-unitised rifle .... it was a standard 14 that I tweaked, and it shot a teensy bit better than my factory unitised SA M1A Super Match SS HBAR ... like maybe 1/4" better.
PPS: for those with more money than brains,
I have a NEW match prepped and UNITISED Norinco gas assembly available in the EE.
Best advice on the M14 rifles I can give anyone, is that the M14 can be very sensitive to variations in ammunition. So before investing in any accuracy upgrade, spend your money on ammo, lots of different brands of ammo, to find the loads that shoot best in your particular rifle.
LAZ 1
On my m14, if I want to go whale off a few hundread rounds. I would have it on normaly. Now if I am off in the bush hunting or at the range praticing cold barrel shot's I flip it up side down. If I have it up side down and fire of mulitple shots at once without letting it cool between shots, I notice that the bullet impacts start printing in a line up. Were if I have it on normaly it shoots a normal group. Also on my norck I never need to shim it but I did get it "unitized" and have to say I am sure glad I did. M14Doctor totaly "Pimped My Ride" and now this rifle is now my new hunting rig!
The reason you shim is to get a proper lockup of the lock nut so your gas cylinder is not slopping around and also helps line up the gas bleed hole.
You can tig or screw and glue,not many do the latter becuase of the time and skill.Tig is fine as long as you do it properly. If the gas cylinder was loose on your barrel before you welded and tight after you have messed up.If you want more elaboration pm me.
You can tig or screw and glue,not many do the latter becuase of the time and skill.Tig is fine as long as you do it properly. If the gas cylinder was loose on your barrel before you welded and tight after you have messed up.If you want more elaboration pm me.
Satain,
Thomas and I have discussed the "tight" VS "slightly loose" gas assembly for slow fire VS rapid fire. Obviously, if the barrel gets VERY hot, then theoretically, a tightly fitted gas assembly can cause some uneven expansion, where a loose gas assembly would pick up the slack.
I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience. Can you provide some group measurements?
thanks
LAZ 1
Thomas and I have discussed the "tight" VS "slightly loose" gas assembly for slow fire VS rapid fire. Obviously, if the barrel gets VERY hot, then theoretically, a tightly fitted gas assembly can cause some uneven expansion, where a loose gas assembly would pick up the slack.
I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience. Can you provide some group measurements?
thanks
LAZ 1
Laz2000:
I've got the Camp Perry Clinic Publication by the NRA. It was printed back in 1982ish and it documents their welding method. And then I've got my coach (who taught me everything I know 'bout M14's) behind me. Personally since I don't compete with my M14, I only shimmed mine. Too lazy to pay a double-double coffee to my welder buddy to unitize it. But when I did compete actively with my M14, I always had them welded up.
Frankly, yer #### will remain intact if you do NOT weld it up and just tighten things up with shims!
I've got the Camp Perry Clinic Publication by the NRA. It was printed back in 1982ish and it documents their welding method. And then I've got my coach (who taught me everything I know 'bout M14's) behind me. Personally since I don't compete with my M14, I only shimmed mine. Too lazy to pay a double-double coffee to my welder buddy to unitize it. But when I did compete actively with my M14, I always had them welded up.
Frankly, yer #### will remain intact if you do NOT weld it up and just tighten things up with shims!
