shooting groups to the left?

J

Jayph

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I bought a pair of handguns a while ago (my first ones) and I decided to leave the sights as they came. Having no experience with handguns before these my first few outings created a lot of misses :redface: But I have 1000 rounds through my springfield now and have my groups down to around 3-4 inches for 20 shots at 10-15 yards (walked it off) but they are consistently 1-2 inches left of the POA to the centre of the group? is it time to adjust the sights or is there something that I could be doing in my noobie grip/stance that could be causing this?

thanks

Jason

Edit: The gun is a Springfield Armory Xdm 4.5. The ammo was American Eagle 147gr FMJ FP. The groups were two mags into each target for three targets with all of them between 3-4 inches in size.

Edit 2: I found one target that wasn't destroyed on the floor of my truck. The one outside of the square was all me with terrible trigger control (I watched the sights jump) and called it before I walked up to the target.

P1010913.jpg


For some reason its posting the picture sideways even though on photobucket its the rights side up???
 
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My biggest problem with left side grouping was that I was gripping with my thumbs. Once I ironed that out, they centred up.

There can be many different reasons why you are grouping left from finger position on the trigger, trigger pull, flinching etc.

Best thing to do first is some dry fire and really concentrate on what the sights are doing during the trigger pull and break.

Also, when in doubt, get someone else to shoot your gun. That will tell you if it is a sights issue. I got someone to shoot mine when I was having this issue and they were hitting centre no problem. Right there I knew it was an issue on my end of things.
 
krausb said:
I saw the title and thought this was a thread about opening fire on hippies... :D
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Bwahaha! Well played, Sir.

To the OP, good advice in that second post, and if anyone pipes up with a "diagnostic chart" that looks kinda like a dartboard, shoot them in the face. Aim slightly right.
 
I'd fire a 5-round group off a bench rest then decide. Or hand the gun to an A-shooter you trust. Personally, I think its the sights, the groups look good.
 
acm said:
Bwahaha! Well played, Sir.

To the OP, good advice in that second post, and if anyone pipes up with a "diagnostic chart" that looks kinda like a dartboard, shoot them in the face. Aim slightly right.
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Oooooops. Just in time.
I was on my way to getting the URL for the Correction charts.

BTW, I do not recall the OP mentioning whether he was right- or left-handed.
 
Firstly, I suggest dry firing a few, to see if you are pulling the sights off target as you squeeze off the shot. From your "group" picture and considering the 10-15 meter range, there is some room for improvement.

If you are hitting the bullseye and happy with your dry fires, try shooting live groups from different distances, say 7, 15 and 25 meters without changing your grip, stance, trigger technique and sight picture,.

If all your groups are still to the left, just drift the rear sight a tiny bit to the right.

All eyes see things differently, so you gotta adjust the sights to fit your eyes.
 
When I first started shooting Glocks a couple years ago I shot consistently to the left for the first 1k rounds or so, also tight groups. I contemplated drifting the sights but came to find it was just my trigger control/learning to shoot a striker fired pistol after only really shooting 1911's or DA/SA guns. I wouldn't drift the sights just yet, not without letting another high level shooter try out the gun. It seems a lot of people drift sights to compensate for poor technique, not saying thats the case with you but something to consider. I've also read posts stating that XDM sights are incredibly hard to remove so drifting them may be some what of a challenge.
 
Unagi604 said:
which is to the right isn't it?
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Yes. A bit to the right and a bit DOWN.

You adjust the rear-sights in the direction you want to move your group.
You adjust the front-sites (where you have the choice) in the opposite direction.
 
First off I have yet to find factor sights to require windage adjustment. It's always turned out to be the shooter. So work on yourself first. Or find a known excellent shooter and have them try the gun.

I'd say you've avoided any flinching issues. And well done on that front! The size of your group is actually darn good for a new shooter at that distance. The correction you need is going to be a minor one. The amount of shift needed to the left grouping at that distance is easily caused by some very small factors.

First off be sure the gun is centered in the web of your strong hand such that it lines up nicely and naturally with your forearm. You may angle your wrist when actually shooting but that's OK. When in your hand and pointed straight ahead you want the gun, your hand and your forearm to all line up nicely. If the gun isn't centered correctly it'll tend to jump within the softness of your hand when it fires. The goal is to provide a neutrally balanced recoil pad with your grip. Locating it as described will do this.

Try to work at hinging your trigger finger more at the second joint back from the tip of your finger and limit how much the knuckle itself moves. The idea is to develop more of a straight back sort of trigger pull for the pad of your finger. If you tension your trigger with some side pressure by moving the contact point in an arc to one side the pressure at the hammer fall tends to jerk the gun slightly to one side. The aim is to correct this and achieve more of a direct back pull. And the smaller your hand and longer the stretch to get to the trigger the more important it is to flex more from the outer joints to get as direct a pull back as possible. Again the idea is to achieve as direct back a pull of the contact point of your trigger finger as possible. It's the "how" of this you want to work on.

If you're already doing these two things then you're still getting some side pressure on the trigger then you can move the group back to center by moving your trigger finger further in onto a portion of your finger closer to the outer joint. This assumes you're shooting right handed. If you're a leftie then you have too much finger onto the trigger and need to shift the contact point out more towards the tip of your finger.

Dry firing with an empty casing balanced on the slide just behind the front sight is a great way to test all this. The casing will jump slightly to the side with the slightest non correct trigger pull and grip hold. If you're doing things right it should sit in place or maybe walk back a little along the center line with each dry fire. Now the XD is a striker fired gun so you can only balance and drop the pin once then you need to rack the gun again. This is where a DA/SA gun comes in handy as you can dry fire a lot of times in succession without having to disturbe your grip. But once at a time is still useful to work on developing a nice diret back pull and proper grip.
 
Thanks to everybody that posted a possible solution. I will try them out next time I am at the range. Going to work on some of the dry fire stuff people posted in the mean time.

Thanks

Jason
 
as mentioned..your group is nice and tight for your experience and distance.
I'm going to go with the assumption you are right handed. Based on that..you could be putting side pressure on the grip with the finger tips of your right hand when you are squeezing the trigger.
when I encounter shooters doing that, I tell them once they establish their grip to force the fingertips of their strong hand into the palm of their weak hand.
"lock the gun" by gently pulling straight back with the fingers of your weak hand while gently pushing forward with your strong arm. it doesn't take much so don't go over board.
And as mentioned..dry fire...a lot.
 
I'm still working on the same problem as you. All my first pistols were hammer fired and shot dead centre (Beretta 92, Various 1911s, SIG P226, P229 and P220), but my Glock shoots left. It's something to do with the trigger on these striker fired pistols. Still trying to get the hang of it. Good luck.
 
cancer said:
I'm still working on the same problem as you. All my first pistols were hammer fired and shot dead centre (Beretta 92, Various 1911s, SIG P226, P229 and P220), but my Glock shoots left. It's something to do with the trigger on these striker fired pistols. Still trying to get the hang of it. Good luck.
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It's likely more due to the reach to the trigger than the striker vs hammer. Try just sticking your trigger finger in further assuming you're right handed.
 
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