Is there anyone who has any experience shooting the 300 Win. Mag at this distance? What kind of scope/ring set up are you using? I presently have 58" of verticle adjustment available to me. I'm dead on at 100 yards now. My 168Berger VLD's Hit the 1000 yard bull at 20.75" of adjustment. any idea if I will have enough scope adjustment?
shooting The 300 Win Mag. at 1750yards
- Thread starter dthunter
- Start date
i dont think you will be able to make the trip to 1750 with that combo. considering 168 vld #### the bed for accuracy at 700m i am amazed you can even shoot them with any kind of consistency at 1000 yards. you will need a 20 or 40 moa rail and 100 moa of adjustment or u could shim the hell out of it.
run the info through any on-line ballistics calculator. If you know the speed of the bullet and can look up it's BC, you'll know.
FWIW, based on a guess of 3200 fps, the bullet will drop more than 100 minutes and be well below sub sonic.
Wrong bullet for the task. The 168 SMK is not a long range bullet.
FWIW, based on a guess of 3200 fps, the bullet will drop more than 100 minutes and be well below sub sonic.
Wrong bullet for the task. The 168 SMK is not a long range bullet.
- Location
- calgary alberta
58 INCHES or 58 MOA? of vertical adjustment, there isa huge difference.
You must be really pushing them hard 3200 FPS or so to only need 20.75 MOA to get to 1000 yards, but a quick run through the balistics programs indicates you should need just under 70 MOA to get to the mile. According to the program your bullet will barely be over supersonic speed.
I assumed you are using the 168 VLDs as they have the higher BC of the Berger 168s
I shoot 208s and need 59.25 MOA to get on target at 1750 yards, according to the program the bullet is still just over 1200 FPS
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Likely not enough up. But it will be close assuming all your other info is correct.
Easiest is a set of Burris Sig ZEE rings with inserts. I assume you have more elevation that isn't being utilized at this time. How much can you turn the turret DOWN from the present 100yds ZERO?
That will tell you how much more elevation shimming will give you.
Many scope manfs make 1" the distance between major numbers at 100yds. Nothing wrong with that and at 100yds, the vast majority of shooters equate inches and MOA as the same thing.
So the OP has approx 58Mins of UP. Not mathematically perfect but close enough to get a bullet in the dirt.
And he says he is using BERGER 168gr VLD's so he should be able to make the trip no problem. If not, a switch to the HRN amax and problem solved. Or to a heavier VLD from any match bullet manf.
What scope do you have now?
Jerry
Easiest is a set of Burris Sig ZEE rings with inserts. I assume you have more elevation that isn't being utilized at this time. How much can you turn the turret DOWN from the present 100yds ZERO?
That will tell you how much more elevation shimming will give you.
Many scope manfs make 1" the distance between major numbers at 100yds. Nothing wrong with that and at 100yds, the vast majority of shooters equate inches and MOA as the same thing.
So the OP has approx 58Mins of UP. Not mathematically perfect but close enough to get a bullet in the dirt.
And he says he is using BERGER 168gr VLD's so he should be able to make the trip no problem. If not, a switch to the HRN amax and problem solved. Or to a heavier VLD from any match bullet manf.
What scope do you have now?
Jerry
Thankyou for your reply. Some of you seem to have experience that i can learn from. Especially "Jerry" Coincidently, I got a set of Zee rings today, and set them up to .010" offset high at the rear, and .010" offset down on the front ring. I then put a .020" Brass shim between the scope surface and bottom ring insert(inside). I havent sighted the rifle in yet but, I have noticed a vertical shift of about 14" while comparing bore sighting from before and after.
when I confirm my point of aim I will let you know how much this has improved things. In the end, I am hoping to have around 70"+ total vertical adjustment. the scope has only 80" total travel. I dont want to get too close to the end of the adjustment.
The scope I am using is Leupolds 8.5-25X50 Mark4,(M1 Dials) TMR Reticle. I equiped the scope with a level to assist myself in making my shots more repeatable.
The Rifle is a Savage Model 110BA 300 Winchester Magnum. Savage claims that thier picatiny rail is 20 M.O.A. but according to my scopes position when centered and on standard Mark 4 rings its more like 10 M.O.A. (Not much). The bullets I am shooting are indeed 168Gr. BergerVLD's. My average velocity is 3264fps. Standard Deviation is 11.0fps. A fairly stable load.
The groups at 1000 with this particular rifle have ranged from 4" to 8" depending on the day. Occaionally around 10". What would you guys expect to get for groups on average at 1000Yds?
when I confirm my point of aim I will let you know how much this has improved things. In the end, I am hoping to have around 70"+ total vertical adjustment. the scope has only 80" total travel. I dont want to get too close to the end of the adjustment.
The scope I am using is Leupolds 8.5-25X50 Mark4,(M1 Dials) TMR Reticle. I equiped the scope with a level to assist myself in making my shots more repeatable.
The Rifle is a Savage Model 110BA 300 Winchester Magnum. Savage claims that thier picatiny rail is 20 M.O.A. but according to my scopes position when centered and on standard Mark 4 rings its more like 10 M.O.A. (Not much). The bullets I am shooting are indeed 168Gr. BergerVLD's. My average velocity is 3264fps. Standard Deviation is 11.0fps. A fairly stable load.
The groups at 1000 with this particular rifle have ranged from 4" to 8" depending on the day. Occaionally around 10". What would you guys expect to get for groups on average at 1000Yds?
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Do not put any material between the shims and rings. It will not help shim your scope in any way BUT will compress the scope tube - VERY BAD.
The only way to make this work is to machine the top half an equal amount to the shimming on the bottom BUT you also need to retain the curvature of the insert to fit in the ring.
Way too complicated..... Don't bother.
You can also move the rings closer together which will change the effective cant on the scope tube. Of course, you need some distance to support the scope tube but you don't need to be at the extremes on a scope.
Properly bedded Savage - I have yet to see a true sub 1/2 min big bore rifle. Some groups will be smaller and some will be larger. Take the average and you are right around 1/2 min with a good shooter.
That is plenty accurate for LR fun.
You might want to consider a heavier bullet. The rifle will have no issue stabilizing the 208 or 210 gr spears. These slow down so much less and that equates to less drift. Drop will likely be more but bouncing all over the place gets real old real fast.
JBM ballistics is your friend. Plug in the numbers and see for yourself.
Jerry
The only way to make this work is to machine the top half an equal amount to the shimming on the bottom BUT you also need to retain the curvature of the insert to fit in the ring.
Way too complicated..... Don't bother.
You can also move the rings closer together which will change the effective cant on the scope tube. Of course, you need some distance to support the scope tube but you don't need to be at the extremes on a scope.
Properly bedded Savage - I have yet to see a true sub 1/2 min big bore rifle. Some groups will be smaller and some will be larger. Take the average and you are right around 1/2 min with a good shooter.
That is plenty accurate for LR fun.
You might want to consider a heavier bullet. The rifle will have no issue stabilizing the 208 or 210 gr spears. These slow down so much less and that equates to less drift. Drop will likely be more but bouncing all over the place gets real old real fast.
JBM ballistics is your friend. Plug in the numbers and see for yourself.
Jerry
- Location
- Halifax, NS
Definitley need those rings with the inserts! I've got the Ken Farrell 20MOA base and the inserts add about 16MOA (more if I place the rings closer together).
My Sightron SIII has 60MOA elevation and it is bottomed out right now and I still shoot about 6" too high at 100 yards.
High quality innexpensive rings with an almost limitless cant. Definitly a must have for those who think internal adjustments will not be enough (and if you dont need it, just change the inserts!)
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
From a quick calculation using the Ballistic app it looks like you need most of 80 minutes to get out to 1760 from a 100 yard zero. Best thing you could do is get yourself a sloped base. How much slope depends where you are in your adjustments when you're at your 100 yard zero. I had a rifle with a 0 MOA base and was at +75MOA when zeroed at 100 yards. A +40 put me well back into thet middle of my adjustment range and gives me all the reach I need. If you're at +35 MOA and only have 80 MOA availavle then you need to go a +20 rail. If you're at +50 MOA then you'll need more. This is where having a tame gunsmith is a great help.
I shoot 190gr SMKs currently from my 110BA in 300wm with a sightron 8-32x56, after some investigation the 210gr berger is probably the best option for your quest. My load is at a moderate 3030fps with a 190gr smk, I have pushed without exceeding max to an easy 3180fps. By my calculations if you can propel the 210gr berger vld to 3000 fps you should only need 65MOA elevation adjustment, as per JBM of course. I would say thats well within your scopes elevation range and the load is also calculated to stay supersonic until approx 1700yrd to 1800yrds.
This sounds like fun! I think I need to try it.
This sounds like fun! I think I need to try it.
Jordan Smith
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
A set of Burris Sig rings with "20" inserts up front and rear should get you on the right track. There are a few articles out there describing how to accurately calculate how to use the inserts to fit your needs.
Hello Mystic precision. Thankyou for your advise! How far do you typically run your bullet off the rifling? So far i have been 0.030" off, (168 BergerVLD)and it seems to work fine. What would you recommend for the 210VLD, or the 208 A-max?
- Location
- central alberta
I shoot plenty of Bergers in many calibers. It seems they like to be close. 30 thous is generally around the swee mark for most guns.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I typically start at 10 thou off the lands if that OAL will work for the rifle.
Jerry
