Had the Starr percussion breechloading carbine out to the range yesterday. I have yet to buy or make an appropriate bullet mould, so I was using round balls. The bore slugged at .565", the balls were ones intended for a .58, and are .562" in diameter. They fit into the forcing cone at the end of the chamber very nicely. Behind the ball I loaded a couple of Crisco'd 5/8" felt wads. About 50gr. of black powder filled the chamber. The nipple accepts standard top hat musket caps. In the course of loading, I would get a bit of Crisco on the breech of the barrel. I was surprised that after firing the grease was still there - there is no gas leakage from the breech, although that big cap is rather close to the nose when it goes off. Unfortunately the balls were striking about 6" high at 25 yards. This lube system isn't good enough. After firing, the first two thirds of the bore was quite free of fouling, but the last third was caked and had a bit of leading. Cleaned out easily enough, though. The bore looked really good before firing; it really shines now. The carbine is easy and smooth to load with loose components. Don't have a specimen on hand - does anyone know the actual measured diameter of a Minie ball? I was thinking that a mould for a shorter Minie could have its base plug trimmed back. This could be an easy way to produce a suitable conical bullet.
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Shooting the Starr carbine
- Thread starter tiriaq
- Start date
To the best of my knowledge, Starr cartridges had a rolled linen body, with a paper base. Flash channel in the block is dead centre. I do not know if the paper base or the cloth portion of the original cartridge were nitrate treated. Bullet was a flat based conical. Standard .58 Minies would seem to be too large to adapt without serious sizing.
The Starr doesn't use a cigar cutter breech, so any cartridge would have to have a base that the cap flash could penetrate - or be ripped open on loading. I'm content to breech seat the bullet, and then load with either a paper cartridge or loose powder. Using the round ball was an experiment. These were at hand, and allowed me to test the carbine.
The sighting will have to be addressed though, if I am ever going to hunt with the carbine. I can make a replacement rear sight. Perhaps a new front sight could be clamped over the origianal. I'm certainly not going to do any permanent alterations.
The Starr doesn't use a cigar cutter breech, so any cartridge would have to have a base that the cap flash could penetrate - or be ripped open on loading. I'm content to breech seat the bullet, and then load with either a paper cartridge or loose powder. Using the round ball was an experiment. These were at hand, and allowed me to test the carbine.
The sighting will have to be addressed though, if I am ever going to hunt with the carbine. I can make a replacement rear sight. Perhaps a new front sight could be clamped over the origianal. I'm certainly not going to do any permanent alterations.
Starr Cartridges
Tiriaq
I found two references to Starr ammo. Both list it as .54 calibre. No actual bore or ball diameter listed. It would have been moot in any case, due to the wide variance in bore diameters during the era.
The overall length listed is: 1 15/16", linen case 1 7/16" with nitrated paper base; conical bullet, 80 grs powder. Maker Johnston & Dow of New York.
Undoubtedly, there were other makers as well.
I haven't tried any cases made from gauze or linen as I was concerned about combustion. I didn't find any worthwhile difference in using nitrated paper over plain. I have used a double thickness of paper towel as a base in onion skin tubes and ignition was flawless. However, it would have gotten damp pretty quick.
I can't say I'm getting the gas seal you are with my Shiloh '63s, so the Starr system must be a superior design. The Brits tested the earlier 'slant breech' Sharps supplied through the firm of Robbins & Lawrence who made them for Sharps, and while the troops loved it, it was rejected for that reason. The cuffs of too many expensive uniforms were being burned by the flash of ignition at the breech!
It was also the first arm with a two piece stock ever considered for adoption by the British Army. When the barrels were worn out in testing and evaluation, they were rebarrelled in the same .575 calibre of the Enfield MLs.
A Cavalry unit was sent to India armed with them and the field report was favourable.
Todd
Todd
Tiriaq
I found two references to Starr ammo. Both list it as .54 calibre. No actual bore or ball diameter listed. It would have been moot in any case, due to the wide variance in bore diameters during the era.
The overall length listed is: 1 15/16", linen case 1 7/16" with nitrated paper base; conical bullet, 80 grs powder. Maker Johnston & Dow of New York.
Undoubtedly, there were other makers as well.
I haven't tried any cases made from gauze or linen as I was concerned about combustion. I didn't find any worthwhile difference in using nitrated paper over plain. I have used a double thickness of paper towel as a base in onion skin tubes and ignition was flawless. However, it would have gotten damp pretty quick.
I can't say I'm getting the gas seal you are with my Shiloh '63s, so the Starr system must be a superior design. The Brits tested the earlier 'slant breech' Sharps supplied through the firm of Robbins & Lawrence who made them for Sharps, and while the troops loved it, it was rejected for that reason. The cuffs of too many expensive uniforms were being burned by the flash of ignition at the breech!
It was also the first arm with a two piece stock ever considered for adoption by the British Army. When the barrels were worn out in testing and evaluation, they were rebarrelled in the same .575 calibre of the Enfield MLs.
A Cavalry unit was sent to India armed with them and the field report was favourable.
Todd
Todd
Thanks, Todd. My paper cartridge experience is with ones for my shotguns., seperate ones for powder and shot. I use brown paper, rolled, formed and glued on a dowel. One end is formed flat, the other just folded. Flat end of the powder cartridge is glued to the cushion wad. Open the cartridge, dump the powder, ram cartridge and wad. Open the shot cartridge, dump the shot, ram the paper as an overshot wad. Or, load the shot cartridge intact, so it acts as a wrapper.
80 grains of powder with a conical would be pretty stiff.
It would be easy enough to make a bullet diameter forming dowel, roll and glue the paper with the grease grooved bullet in one end, and either fold over the other end or glue on a thin end for the flash. Bullet and end of cartridge could be dipped in extra lube.
The Starr breech is interesting - two blocks. The front one tips back on opening, the rear moves vertically, and cams the front block against the barrel breech. The barrel breech is a cone, there is a corresponding groove in the block face. These fit closely together when the breech is closed.
My carbine is well used on the outside, but the bore is shiney, and mechanism are perfect. It obviously was cleaned well whenever it was used. When I got it the breech mechanism and bore were caked with old hardened grease.
80 grains of powder with a conical would be pretty stiff.
It would be easy enough to make a bullet diameter forming dowel, roll and glue the paper with the grease grooved bullet in one end, and either fold over the other end or glue on a thin end for the flash. Bullet and end of cartridge could be dipped in extra lube.
The Starr breech is interesting - two blocks. The front one tips back on opening, the rear moves vertically, and cams the front block against the barrel breech. The barrel breech is a cone, there is a corresponding groove in the block face. These fit closely together when the breech is closed.
My carbine is well used on the outside, but the bore is shiney, and mechanism are perfect. It obviously was cleaned well whenever it was used. When I got it the breech mechanism and bore were caked with old hardened grease.
