short action ? long action?
- Thread starter Sierra1500
- Start date
^ Well, take a look at what the benchrest guys are using, and that might give you a bit of an indication. Granted, benchrest equipment doesn't have a whole lot of semblance to sporters, but still. You gotta figure that there's a REASON why most if not all the benchrest crowd is using short actions. 222, the various PPC's, the 308, the BR's, the x-284's etc.
prosper said:
Bingo.
One of the real advantages relates to more complete and consistance ignition of the powder. The primer is in contact at first with the powder at the base of the cartridge obviously. There is then a 'plug' of unburned or incompletely burned powder nearest the bullet that is blasted down the barrel before properly ignited in longer cartridges with slight shoulder angles. The amount of unburned powder in this case tends to vary a fair amount.
Shorter cartridges with sharp shoulder angles tend to deflect the 'fire' back to the centre of the powder colum right against the bullet and aid to reduce or iliminate the 'plug' of unburned powder.
No, I didn't make this up. Do a little reasearch boys
In fact there is a lot of investigation right now into having conical shaped instead of straight shoulders to even better this phenomenon. (Think light rays and a lense). All of this is not a big issue for the average deer rifle, but is carefully considered by the best bench rest shooting competitors/rifle makers. 
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Salty said:All of this is not a big issue for the average deer rifle, but is carefully considered by the best bench rest shooting competitors/rifle makers.
So then lets talk about it in the precision rifle forum and not the hunting rifle forum
powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
BC Bigbore said:You are wrong there my intellectual friendI bid you all farewell until next week...BCB
I resent that. I thought it would be a good place to find out everyones opinions instead of making a new thread entitled SA vs LA which one is better.
I own both and wanted to know others preferences. I think this question has proved to be educational to everyone.
Don't bother. Bigredd's not really interested in debate. Come at him with facts, and he'll ask for 'proof'. Show him the proof from sound scientific principals or studies, and he'll come back again with a 'well prove that' and so on and so forth. Despite coming off as pedantic, his debates usually end up as a 'yuh-huh - nuh-huh - yuh-huh - nuh-huh....' match, or a two year-old's "why?" ... "but why?"... "but why?"....powder burner said:
Just let it go
crazy_davey said:So then lets talk about it in the precision rifle forum and not the hunting rifle forum
Well a few naysayers denied any increased accuracy here so I spouted off here
Back to powder burner: don't take it personally. Bigsy is a little grumpy, maybe he'll feel better after his break
Now back to the #### disturb.. ah debate at hand.....
powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Alrighty then.
Whats your favourite caliber in long action and in your favourite short action? My LA is a savage 30-06 model 110C, and the shorts are stevens 22-250, 7mm08 in model 200.
If I were to get another long action I might go for the 300 mag or 7mm Mag.
For shorts I would get a 243 and probably stick with a savage.
Whats your favourite caliber in long action and in your favourite short action? My LA is a savage 30-06 model 110C, and the shorts are stevens 22-250, 7mm08 in model 200.
If I were to get another long action I might go for the 300 mag or 7mm Mag.
For shorts I would get a 243 and probably stick with a savage.
What about full-length Magnum actions? Like the 375H&H or RUMs. The you've got the 'super' magnum actions like the 416 & 450 Rigby, 338 Lapua and 378 Wby family. And also the micro actions - Hornets & the like.
prosper said:Don't bother. Bigredd's not really interested in debate. Come at him with facts, and he'll ask for 'proof'. Show him the proof from sound scientific principals or studies, and he'll come back again with a 'well prove that' and so on and so forth. Despite coming off as pedantic, his debates usually end up as a 'yuh-huh - nuh-huh - yuh-huh - nuh-huh....' match, or a two year-old's "why?" ... "but why?"... "but why?"....
Just let it go
You still mad cause you lose every debate prosper....
How about proving your argument ... or do you even have one?
I read lots of science on this thread here proving the short action better than a long action. But very little proving the long to be superior?
Arguing with prosper is not debate... he lacks the temperament. He is very good a criticizing without facts. He pretends to be educated even though he flips burgers for a living. He jumps in to a debate to launch personal attacks and flame the thread with nonsense.
You are a sorry piece of work prosper.... I am impervious to your Personal Attacks... you have only succeeded in hijacking this thread with your own jealous and personal agenda.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
gth said:
I am a very firm believer in the thought that the winners are/will keep winning , no matter WHAT caliber and case is the latest fashion.
The latest and greatest rounds have to be shot by the best shooters, you will not make a champion with a new cartridge.
I've seen it before in matches, and it willl never change.
As far as hunting goes, if it is within range of one cartridge , it is within range of the other.
Cat
the short action versus long action debate is very similiar to the controlled feed versus push feed debate.
Lots of emotion and very few facts and logic presented.
Kinda like the gun control debate actually.
Truth is, there are two debates going on here...short versus long action "rifle" and short versus long action "cartridges". Is a Savage 110 or a Pre'64 M70 in 243 any less accurrate than a Savage 10 or a new M70 short action in 243?......nope.
If one were to chamber a full blown 6PPC bench gun in a long action (insert name of custom action here)would it be any less accurrate than if it were chambered in a short action of the same make......of course not...you could add another inch on the rear of any action and it won't change the accurracy assuming all other attributes of the said rifle remain the same, like the barrel, the bedding and the degree of precision that it was assembled with.
Only true gun nuts could argue this much about an issue that has no clear answer..
Lots of emotion and very few facts and logic presented.
Kinda like the gun control debate actually.
Truth is, there are two debates going on here...short versus long action "rifle" and short versus long action "cartridges". Is a Savage 110 or a Pre'64 M70 in 243 any less accurrate than a Savage 10 or a new M70 short action in 243?......nope.
If one were to chamber a full blown 6PPC bench gun in a long action (insert name of custom action here)would it be any less accurrate than if it were chambered in a short action of the same make......of course not...you could add another inch on the rear of any action and it won't change the accurracy assuming all other attributes of the said rifle remain the same, like the barrel, the bedding and the degree of precision that it was assembled with.
Only true gun nuts could argue this much about an issue that has no clear answer..
Amphibious/Ambiguous said:Oh I'm sorry if you feel insulted when told that your repetative reguritation of firearm marketing media is unfounded. I'm sure there is a little gun shop lacky someplace to give you a nice pat on the back, hand you a box of WSSM and tell you it will be alright.
the only jibs I make are to knock down your "claims" that something is better when it is clearly not, only different. usually replying like this would be a waste of my precious time, but your posts are one step up from scratching my ass while I wait for the coffee to finish perking
Again I will point out to my ambiguous antagonist that the arguments here clearly point to the short action as being better. Not just my opinion but the majority of the posters here agree. Your opinion although comical in a sad and pitiful way only serves to prove your rediculous personal agenda.
I am quite happy that you feel threatened enough by my presense to launch your laughable personal attacks evey time I post. I am truly excited that I can illicit a response from you with such miniscule effort, I liken you to Pavlovs dog...
Thanks pal
ah bighead, Pavlov's dog was hungry, you on the other hand just sit here and troll. you are possibly one of the biggest trolls on this board. I'll happly take on the role of a automated responses due to conditioning if it means debunking the bull#### you spew at every corner. you contually post statements such as those expressed in this thread purely to get a rise out of other individuals. those in the know will take everything you type with a grain of salt, your bias as a firearms retailer being ever so obvious. when those that disagree reply you call them poor agitators and "comical" "sad". but thats ok. for every post you make that has no basis in real world hunting conditions I will make another, so that the rookies and new guys are this board that are already plauged by poor advice from the otherside of a gunstore counter don't continue to be misled. you want to debate the merrits of a short action over a long action? take it to the percision firearms forum. as time and time again it has been FIELD PROVEN to be not anythign of consequence in realworld hunting situations.
Your a joke Ambiguous... How in the world would it matter to a firearms retailer whether a long or short action is better? The firearms retailers that I deal with all sell both and make the same margin regardless. The real challenge in retail is to have what everybody wants and not be crippled by preconceived notions as to what THEY think is better. The guys with closed minds like yourself are the easiest to sell to, they only know one thing and are only confused by choices. Just give them a Remington .30-06 and send them out the door. Educated buyers won't bend your ear with unsolicited opinions and they won't waste your time or theirs trying to get you to agree with them. They know what they want and are confident in their knowledge and choices.
Your agenda has nothing to do with debunking myths. You are the one who consistently takes threads and turns them into pissing matches. The only one here I care to get a rise out of is you... and you are the one who threw down the gauntlet not I.
I could care less whether Short or Long actions are better and I do own both. My favorite calibers traditionally are long actions, namely the 270win and 300WM. This in no way changes the fact that Short actions have many advantages over Long actions.
My agenda is clear... and my facts are straight.
You on the other hand are not satisfied until you kill a thread with personal attacks due to your own lack of self worth.
Now is about time for you to resort to Name calling and personal attacks again... give it your best shot.
Your agenda has nothing to do with debunking myths. You are the one who consistently takes threads and turns them into pissing matches. The only one here I care to get a rise out of is you... and you are the one who threw down the gauntlet not I.
I could care less whether Short or Long actions are better and I do own both. My favorite calibers traditionally are long actions, namely the 270win and 300WM. This in no way changes the fact that Short actions have many advantages over Long actions.
My agenda is clear... and my facts are straight.
You on the other hand are not satisfied until you kill a thread with personal attacks due to your own lack of self worth.
Now is about time for you to resort to Name calling and personal attacks again... give it your best shot.
BIGREDD said:
Jumping into this one a few pages late but I have to strongly disagree.
The measured difference between a Rem 700 SA and LA is just a tad over 3/4" in length, and a few ounces in weight.
Take identical barrel length and contour, use identical stock design, and you will NEVER know the difference in the field or off of the bench.
I am fond of the Rem 700 SA, currently owning a 7-08AI, a 7-08, and a 223AI (long actions include a 280AI (just sold my Rem 700 35 Whelen)).
The 7-08AI and 280AI are both custom rigs, and the accuracy between the two is identical... any given day one will outshoot the other by 0.1" or so.
As to packing in the field, 3/4" difference means nothing, and 2-3 ounces is very minor.
I will state that TYPICALLY the most svelte factory offerings are SA's, but that is purely packaging, not a SA/LA thing (look at the Rem 700 TI LA for proof of a petite long action rifle).
As to short and fat being better....I always knew BIGREDD was a chubby chaser but lets keep off the topic of women for just a second (grin).
Absolutely impossible to notice a difference in the field between the LA/SA in the same rifle config!
280_ACKLEY
powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
If you guys wanna b!tch just PM eachother so we dont have to hear it.
LA vs SA some rifles just weigh more than others. I know my dads model 70 7mm Mag XTR weighs more than my savage model 110C series J in 30-06. Its just the way it is.
LA vs SA some rifles just weigh more than others. I know my dads model 70 7mm Mag XTR weighs more than my savage model 110C series J in 30-06. Its just the way it is.
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