Short shottie?

Gargoyle

Gargoyle

CGN Regular
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"South"western Ontario
I know you can legally carry two firearms for big game as long as they are both capable and legal of taking said game. I also know you can carry bird shot when moose or bear hunting for grouse.

My question is, how short is too short in the eyes of the law for hunting?

I’m thinking one of the new breed of shockwave style shotguns would be a good option for grouse without having to carry another full size firearm. My rifle would always be my primary tool for taking big game.
 
Any shotgun that is not of the "restricted" category is legal for hunting. The really short ones are very handy, but I wouldn't personally use one because they are very very loud and hard on the hearing, hard to shoot moving game with, because of poor balance and ergonomics. But if shooting grouse on the ground is your desire, one would effectively serve that purpose.
 
Gargoyle said:
I know you can legally carry two firearms for big game as long as they are both capable and legal of taking said game. I also know you can carry bird shot when moose or bear hunting for grouse.

My question is, how short is too short in the eyes of the law for hunting?

I’m thinking one of the new breed of shockwave style shotguns would be a good option for grouse without having to carry another full size firearm. My rifle would always be my primary tool for taking big game.
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Look for a Laser Arms break open. I picked up one in 20 gauge with a 14" barrel. Came with 5 chokes, and it's a nice little gun. Much better than the Chinese one I had before. Folds in half also.
 
Longwalker said:
Any shotgun that is not of the "restricted" category is legal for hunting.
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Not entirely correct, it will vary by province in the hunting regs. In B.C. the regs say that it is illegal to hunt with a firearm with a barrel of less than 305mm (12.0079”) in length.

For example, a DA grizzly with an 8.5” barrel is non restricted in oal and legal for bear defence but it can’t be used to hunt with in B.C. The 12.5” barreled DA grizzly is NR in length and legal in barrel length for hunting in B.C., the op needs to read his provincial hunting regs for mention of min barrel length, which is where the answer will likely be.
 
I use a single shot 13inch barrelled 410 on my ATV when moose hunting, great for grouse on the ground and not to loud if I leave my helmet on. It shoots high, I aim at their feet and hit the head out to 20 yards,
 
Grizzly Adams said:
The answer to all our prayers. 14 " barrel, very light and compact, choke selectable, fit in your backpack. My travelling gun. :) available with synthetic stock as well.

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/...er-2-12ga-14-barrel-walnut-stock-with-hammer/

Grizz
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That's the one I picked up. Marked as Laser Arms though. I wonder if it's a rebadged Hatsan?

I almost picked up the synthetic stock, in 12 gauge, but found the wood stock with silver receiver much more attractive. Ended up getting it in 20 gauge. Very light, and handy, seems like it weighs maybe 4 lbs.(?).

Mine also came with 5 interchangeable chokes.
 
9.3mauser said:
In Ontario, as long as it's non-restricted you're good to go.
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True from a barrel length POV, but obviously...capacity is the other factor.

Unless the grouse where you're hunting are so dumb you could hit them with a rock...I think short-barreled shotguns are a pretty poor choice. I also think the pistol grip/raptor grip shotguns are a poor choice for anything at all, and shooting them has a fun factor of about 1/10 for me. lol (And I'm a big guy, not recoil shy) When I read questions like these, I wonder how much shotgunning experience is at play...because in my hunting experience, most birds are very skittish...wing shots are about all you get 80% of the time..and most of THOSE encounters are too far off anyway. (flushing 100+ yards out) Lugging around an un-choked, 12.5"-14" barreled shotgun where I hunt would likely only reward you with a nice walk through the woods, but no birds. Not that I score very often either. :) The shortest-barrel/no-choke gun I've ever used with success (wing shots and sitting birds) was a 21" barreled 870 Wingmaster in 20ga.

There are small/light guns that excel in applications like this, even the lowly Cooey 84. lol (I have one in 20ga) These could not be more simple/reliable/easy to break down, etc. I get wanting a pump, so my suggestion would be something like a Mossberg 500 (lower weight than an 870) and if size/weight is still of concern, maybe opt for one of the models geared towards women, or younger shooters. It'll have a vent rib barrel, interchangeable chokes~real benefits when looking for birds. If the LOP is too short, the receivers are always shared with the full-sized guns...so you could carry a youth-sized gun, with an adult-sized butt stock to make it fit better. We have an 870 Youth (laminate stock) Express that I really like, has a 21"/VR barrel. I'm 6' 1", and this compact pump gun fits me just fine. In the event you're looking at a Remington...just keep in mind they have 3 sizes. The barrel and stock set sizes are different. The compact (18-1/2" barrel, but impossibly small butt stock) youth (21") and full-sized (26"/28") It's the "Youth" I'd suggest to keep the size usable, but still compact.
 
.22LRGUY said:
True from a barrel length POV, but obviously...capacity is the other factor.

Unless the grouse where you're hunting are so dumb you could hit them with a rock...I think short-barreled shotguns are a pretty poor choice. I also think the pistol grip/raptor grip shotguns are a poor choice for anything at all, and shooting them has a fun factor of about 1/10 for me. lol (And I'm a big guy, not recoil shy) When I read questions like these, I wonder how much shotgunning experience is at play...because in my hunting experience, most birds are very skittish...wing shots are about all you get 80% of the time..and most of THOSE encounters are too far off anyway. (flushing 100+ yards out) Lugging around an un-choked, 12.5"-14" barreled shotgun where I hunt would likely only reward you with a nice walk through the woods, but no birds. Not that I score very often either. :) The shortest-barrel/no-choke gun I've ever used with success (wing shots and sitting birds) was a 21" barreled 870 Wingmaster in 20ga.

There are small/light guns that excel in applications like this, even the lowly Cooey 84. lol (I have one in 20ga) These could not be more simple/reliable/easy to break down, etc. I get wanting a pump, so my suggestion would be something like a Mossberg 500 (lower weight than an 870) and if size/weight is still of concern, maybe opt for one of the models geared towards women, or younger shooters. It'll have a vent rib barrel, interchangeable chokes~real benefits when looking for birds. If the LOP is too short, the receivers are always shared with the full-sized guns...so you could carry a youth-sized gun, with an adult-sized butt stock to make it fit better. We have an 870 Youth (laminate stock) Express that I really like, has a 21"/VR barrel. I'm 6' 1", and this compact pump gun fits me just fine. In the event you're looking at a Remington...just keep in mind they have 3 sizes. The barrel and stock set sizes are different. The compact (18-1/2" barrel, but impossibly small butt stock) youth (21") and full-sized (26"/28") It's the "Youth" I'd suggest to keep the size usable, but still compact.
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I've had them flush way out, but also had close shots. Usually the ones that flush a long way out are on a gravel road, and have lots of time to see me coming, but the ones in the bush seem more secure to stay put or run off a little way.

Usually I take grouse with a head or neck shot with rimfire. But have shot a bunch with "big game rifles" too. A few with shotgun. And a few with air rifle, also.

My short barreled shot gun has interchangeable chokes and will shoot just as tight as a longer one. Also have a couple of cut down open choke guns that work, too. Just because it's open, doesn't mean it won't throw a good pattern. In the BP days, guns were a lot more open. Maybe that means it won't be a great 40 yard killer, but you have to be a little sneakier, and do it at 25.
 
tactical lever said:
I've had them flush way out, but also had close shots. Usually the ones that flush a long way out are on a gravel road, and have lots of time to see me coming, but the ones in the bush seem more secure to stay put or run off a little way.

Usually I take grouse with a head or neck shot with rimfire. But have shot a bunch with "big game rifles" too. A few with shotgun. And a few with air rifle, also.

My short barreled shot gun has interchangeable chokes and will shoot just as tight as a longer one. Also have a couple of cut down open choke guns that work, too. Just because it's open, doesn't mean it won't throw a good pattern. In the BP days, guns were a lot more open. Maybe that means it won't be a great 40 yard killer, but you have to be a little sneakier, and do it at 25.
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^that has simply not been my experience. AT all. lol I had a choked, 12.5" Grizzly barrel and a Remchoke 28" barrel, and if those two guns are any indication...a MOD from a 12.5" vs. from a 28"=very different pattern. I didn't dwell on this process either BTW, I wanted the 12.5" to pattern better than it did as I'd hoped a shorter gun would be practical. Here where I hunt grouse, it just isn't. Maybe your experience was different. Anyhow, not saying you couldn't put an EXTRA FULL tube (for instance) in a 12.5" barrel and NOT achieve maybe more typical MOD patterns..? Maybe you could find a tube for a short barrel that would get you the pattern you want, I just wouldn't bank on it being the same result from a standard length gun with the same choke.
 
.22LRGUY said:
^that has simply not been my experience. AT all. lol I had a choked, 12.5" Grizzly barrel and a Remchoke 28" barrel, and if those two guns are any indication...a MOD from a 12.5" vs. from a 28"=very different pattern. I didn't dwell on this process either BTW, I wanted the 12.5" to pattern better than it did as I'd hoped a shorter gun would be practical. Here where I hunt grouse, it just isn't. Maybe your experience was different. Anyhow, not saying you couldn't put an EXTRA FULL tube (for instance) in a 12.5" barrel and NOT achieve maybe more typical MOD patterns..? Maybe you could find a tube for a short barrel that would get you the pattern you want, I just wouldn't bank on it being the same result from a standard length gun with the same choke.
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It’s interesting, I have a 12.5” grizzly barrel threaded for tru-chokes. A 14” nea barrel threaded for winchokes, and 20” & 28” Rem barrels that take a Rem choke. The 12.5” with mod tru chokes and the 20” & 28” mod choked barrels all throw similar patterns at the same range. The 14” barrel with a mod choke throws a much larger pattern, I have to used a full win choke to get the same pattern as the others three with mod’s.

Barrel bore diameter differences between the 4 barrels and choke diameters are likely the reason, we had a threaded not long ago that touched upon this iirc. Each manufacturers barrel bore is different in diameter and their choke diameters reflect that, a mod choke diameter will vary between makers yet the amount of constriction will be the same based on the size of the bore to the size of the choke.
 
.22LRGUY said:
^that has simply not been my experience. AT all. lol I had a choked, 12.5" Grizzly barrel and a Remchoke 28" barrel, and if those two guns are any indication...a MOD from a 12.5" vs. from a 28"=very different pattern. I didn't dwell on this process either BTW, I wanted the 12.5" to pattern better than it did as I'd hoped a shorter gun would be practical. Here where I hunt grouse, it just isn't. Maybe your experience was different. Anyhow, not saying you couldn't put an EXTRA FULL tube (for instance) in a 12.5" barrel and NOT achieve maybe more typical MOD patterns..? Maybe you could find a tube for a short barrel that would get you the pattern you want, I just wouldn't bank on it being the same result from a standard length gun with the same choke.
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Well, in the interest of accuracy, everyone's experience will be different. There is no set specification on how much a choke is restricted. The labels are a guide, but different manufacturers make them a little different. Some are shaped a little different as well. And your chamber length (shooting 2 3/4" vs. 3") will make a difference. Different shells will pattern different as well. Different shot size, and type make a difference. Non interchangeable choke guns are different as well. Some have a longer more gradual choke. Some are "jug bored" where the inner diameter gets bigger first and then smaller.

Most of the newer guns (especially at a moderate price point) will have a relatively short choke restriction. As far as some of my shotguns, my 20 gauge semi with 20" barrel and screw in chokes will cut a ragged hole at about 10 yards (maybe 8?) with the screw in full choke. My old single shot with full choke probably doesn't shoot quite that tight, and I believe the barrel is about 6" longer. The newer gun with the short barrel warns against using big shot with the modified choke or tighter.

What does that all mean? Who knows? But all else being equal, if you take a 2 different barrels from the same manufacturer, but different lengths, same screw in choke, the pattern will be pretty comparable.
 
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