Should a No4 Lee Enfield be stored with the king screw loosened?
- Thread starter louthepou
- Start date
Indeed. But my idea is that, with time, the "spring" effect of the forend can get weak. I've seen many No4's with no upward pressure on the muzzle, and I wonder how long it takes for a properly bedded forend to loose this caracteristic - and if storing with a loosened king screw can be a solution to avoid the potential issue. Or I'm thinking too much maybe.
Lou: I store all of mine with the front triggerguard screw loosened off a bit, both No's 1 and 4. If, as mentioned by JTF, you have an old one with badly compressed wood it should be fixed either by trimming the collar or adding some wood so that a good clamping effect is restored.
milsurpo
milsurpo
I'm doing a "light" restoration on a Savage No4 Mk1 that is in great condition. I noticed as I broke it down that every, and I mean every, screw was little more than finger tight with no visible marks on the screw slots. When I reassemble the rifle I'll be putting the screws back in at the same low torque. As stated above, the pillar is in place to prevent over tightening and cracking the stock but I can't see any harm in leaving the screws loosened a bit to prevent wear or stripping.
louthepou
When the British Enfield fore stock had .010 wood crush above and below the King Screw bedding area the stock was replace. This was because the lobes on the trigger and the "angle" of the trigger guard prevented proper trigger adjustments. Meaning the more wood crush you had the shorter the king screw bushing would be and the trigger guard angle increased. (and just one reason the trigger was hung from the receiver on later models)
This is why you hear about bending the trigger guard to adjust the trigger pull on Canadian Enfield rifles. This is because there are no replacement fore stocks being made so the trigger guard is bent to compensate for excessive wood crush.
The King screw bushing or collar is to be .005 to .010 below the surface of the wood and it is used to prevent "excessive" wood crush. "BUT" weather and humidity changes can effect the fore ends up pressure and if you look in the "Canadian Marksmans" bedding illustrations a shim is added above the draws area. This shim is to prevent up and down movement at the rear of the stock and help prevent changes in the fore stocks up pressure.
My friends Anschutz .22 rifle that he uses in .22 silhouette competition shooting loosens the stock screw after every match. He then tightens the screw just before the next match using the factory supplied allen wrench and a weight that hangs from the handle end of the Allen wrench.
This is also just one reason why Peter Laidler the senior armourer in the UK and Enfield rifle author stressed the importance of keeping the stock well oiled with raw linseed oil. This keeps the stock well "Hydrated" to prevent wood shrinkage.
So "YES" louthepou back off the king screw during storage and retighten before shooting and help prevent "wood crush" during storage.
P.S. And "Gorilla tight" in reference to the king screw doesn't mean to tighten the king screw until the threads start to smoke and then give it two more full turns.
When the British Enfield fore stock had .010 wood crush above and below the King Screw bedding area the stock was replace. This was because the lobes on the trigger and the "angle" of the trigger guard prevented proper trigger adjustments. Meaning the more wood crush you had the shorter the king screw bushing would be and the trigger guard angle increased. (and just one reason the trigger was hung from the receiver on later models)
This is why you hear about bending the trigger guard to adjust the trigger pull on Canadian Enfield rifles. This is because there are no replacement fore stocks being made so the trigger guard is bent to compensate for excessive wood crush.
The King screw bushing or collar is to be .005 to .010 below the surface of the wood and it is used to prevent "excessive" wood crush. "BUT" weather and humidity changes can effect the fore ends up pressure and if you look in the "Canadian Marksmans" bedding illustrations a shim is added above the draws area. This shim is to prevent up and down movement at the rear of the stock and help prevent changes in the fore stocks up pressure.
My friends Anschutz .22 rifle that he uses in .22 silhouette competition shooting loosens the stock screw after every match. He then tightens the screw just before the next match using the factory supplied allen wrench and a weight that hangs from the handle end of the Allen wrench.
This is also just one reason why Peter Laidler the senior armourer in the UK and Enfield rifle author stressed the importance of keeping the stock well oiled with raw linseed oil. This keeps the stock well "Hydrated" to prevent wood shrinkage.
So "YES" louthepou back off the king screw during storage and retighten before shooting and help prevent "wood crush" during storage.
P.S. And "Gorilla tight" in reference to the king screw doesn't mean to tighten the king screw until the threads start to smoke and then give it two more full turns.
Thanks Ed. Interesting as always.
Yes, I do back off my king screws due to the crush factor on the wood.
Remember, in service they had teams of armourers taking care of these weapons, including replacing the forends when needed. We don't have that luxury. So we have to do our own thinking.
Yes, I do back off my king screws due to the crush factor on the wood.
Remember, in service they had teams of armourers taking care of these weapons, including replacing the forends when needed. We don't have that luxury. So we have to do our own thinking.
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
i think with"a little more than finger tight" all you are asking for is lost screws. don`t ask how i know.
In a way this is funny, I'm an American and many years ago my wife saw me looking at a No.4 Enfield rifle just before Christmas and bought me one. The only reason I was looking at this "foreign" rifle was because it had a peep sight and with my eyesight easy to shoot.
The problem was this Enfield rifle was a stranger in a strange land and I knew "NOTHING" about it. So I tracked down every book and manual I could find on the Enfield rifle and self educated myself. And I also traded emails with Peter Laidler and other armourers in Australia.
If your really interested in the "maintenance" end of the Enfield rifle then read the 1931 British Instructions for Armourers, and your Canadian No.4 manuals and the "Canadian Marksman". When you read all these manuals you will have a much greater understanding of the Enfield rifle and its bedding principals.
A Australian once told me what an Armourer told him about the Enfield rifle, "the draws area of the fore stock should be as tight as buggery". Not only did I learn about the Enfield rifle, I also learned the Australians have a warped sense of humor like I do.
Hey Ed, how come PL didn't teach you the front trigger guard screw is not a king screw?
I'm asking for it aren't I
1. Because 240 years ago we Americans had that disagreement with King George and we changed how we spell color and agreed with the Australians sentenced to Tazmania to give the British a hard time.
(the only reason I'm an American is because my ancesters were faster runners than the family members sent to Tazmania)
2. Because the American company Pratt and Whitney set up the Enfield rifle plant in Lithgow Australia and the Ozmanics called it the King Screw.
3. Because there were more Australians at Gunboards Enfield forum where I had my manual sticky and the Ozmanics out numbered the British members.
Besides, how many of you have ever lost a Enfield postal match to the Australians and got even for it the next day.
Or fully understand Australian humor and sporting rules and regulations.
And my mothers maiden name is McVitty.
As I'm reading all the comments I'm learning a lot. I'm very new to Enfields and have to say they are sure different animal then I use to. One think crossed my mind and maybe you guys will find it irrelevant but anyway. I have a good friend and he was shooting on Canadian teem for many years. He told me as he was going to shoot for Canada in Britan he was having trouble with bedding in his rifle do to moisture over there. One day his gun was shooting and next all over the place. Than he did bedding with epoxy and that did fixed it. I'm sure to keep the screws looser over long time would be a good idea with wood but I'm woundering how did the military had them in long turn storage and I'm sure the presure of the wood will even change in the whether or time of year.
I read over on milsurps once in a post by PL. I para phrase here. "There are only two kinds of foreends. Those that are warped, and those are that are not warped.... YET."
So yes, doing this may help prolong the life of the rifle, but one day you will go to shoot that rifle and you will find that the bedding is shot (pardon the pun). I am in the process of replacing a foreend that had this happen. All the bedding around the action is spot on, but the tip of the stock has pulled away from the barrel. I think I may eventually cut down the foreend to do a pseudo No5, or to replace a beat up sportered rifle stock.
So yes, doing this may help prolong the life of the rifle, but one day you will go to shoot that rifle and you will find that the bedding is shot (pardon the pun). I am in the process of replacing a foreend that had this happen. All the bedding around the action is spot on, but the tip of the stock has pulled away from the barrel. I think I may eventually cut down the foreend to do a pseudo No5, or to replace a beat up sportered rifle stock.
