Should I upgrade from a Norinco CQ-A?
- Thread starter kiltmonkey
- Start date
Whoa...whoa...whoa! I don't remember anyone saying that your #### wouldn't fall off. I wouldn't take that bet in a heart beat. If you value your pecker at all, you might want to think things out here and upgrade to something more fashionable.
It's better to be safe than sorry.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Whoa...whoa...whoa! I don't remember anyone saying that your #### wouldn't fall off. I wouldn't take that bet in a heart beat. If you value your pecker at all, you might want to think things out here and upgrade to something more fashionable.
It's better to be safe than sorry.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Ha ha! After CP finally came through, installation of the DD Omega on the Norc took about 5 minutes on the outside. Just used a pair channel locks to pry the delta ring, off pops the old hand guards and on go the DD. Couple of quick twists with a screw driver and an allen wrench and we are done.
Once in a while I win one. Now to figure out how many pounds of useless crap I can bolt on all those rails
So OP, did you decide to get a new rifle?
IMO, given the state of the global economy, I would say ammo is MUCH more important than the gun you're shooting.
IIRC, the awesome Norinco manual says the rifle have a 5000 round count life expectancy (I doubt it's that low - but let's say it is).
At current prices, 5000 rounds of .223 would run you about $2100 (say $400/1k plus taxes). Ammo prices track real inflation (not BS CPI, that the banks and government lie about) and commodity prices (lead, copper, and nickel being good examples - all of which have enormous upside potential). IMO, this means you're looking at least at a 5-10% annual increase in ammo price. Therefore, the more AMMO you buy now, the greater your long term savings are - as well as the possibility of actually making a huge profit down the road.
If you buy 5000 rounds of ammo now, you will save much more, over if you buy 1000 this year, 1000 a year from now, etc. (As an example, if you see 5% annual inflation, 5000 rounds spaced over 5 years is $2320, whereas buying it all now, it is $2100. 10,000 rounds over 10 years is $5282, while 10000 rounds now is $4200).
I believe there will be runaway inflation and much, MUCH higher commodity prices in the near future (we currently are experiencing a deflationary recession, which governments and banks are responding to by creating a hyper-inflationary depression). Therefore, it's not inconceivable that you may see ammo price skyrocket when the full effects of hyperinflation are realized (which they will shortly).
When this happens does, you will NOT want to be a buyer of ammunition - but I believe there will still be a lot of the guys with high-end AR's who didn't mass buy ammo (or components) now, who will gladly buy factory loaded ammo (or components) from you if you have them.
Guns on the other hand ALWAYS depreciate in value after use, so unless you never plan to shoot it, while price increases for new guns due to inflation MAY mean your resale price may increase (or stay close to or the same as your purchase price), the loss to you due both to inflation and depreciation means even if you have a top quality AR, if you try to resell it you'll never get more for it than you paid for it, and likely get much, much less for it (due to the double whammy of depreciation and inflation).
As for operational use, I own 3 Norc CQ's - one I bought overpriced at $900 when they first came out, 2 with the newer, better quality releases for $700. So even though I overpaid, I still paid as much for 3 rifles with a "by the manual" expected round count lifespan of 15,000 rounds for the price of a single, top quality AR.
Even if I experience a failure with one of my AR's (which I have not yet with a round count of roughly 1000, 500, and 100 between the 3), I have the ability to either swap out parts, or swap out the gun entirely. Thus, I'm not to worried about having a failure at the range, because I always have a backup (or two).
As any Canadian soldier or AR-nut will tell you, even high quality American/Canadian made AR's have failures - sometimes at the most inconvenient time. If you're in a situation where you NEED an AR and it goes down requiring substantial remedial action, having just one functional AR leaves you seriously up the creek without a paddle (for us gunnutz, a ruined trip to the range. To our military friends, a possible loss of life). Fortunately for us civvy's, we don't have the restriction of having just 1 rifle (yet) that our men in uniform have, so long as we can enjoy that privilege, I'm of the opinion you might as well stack em up and keep a few backups.
I shoot my CQ's once, maybe twice a month - probably 50 rounds per month total, meaning for me to hit the "by the manual" end of life for all 3 of my Norinco's, I have about 25 years to go.
If I decide to do some awesome thousand round range shoots, that might be another story (that's what CMMG .22 kits are for), but realistically, given my usage of the gun, odds are I won't be growing out of my AR's for a long, long time.
The big thing I'm worried about though is if there is a financial emergency and I needed to raise some money (by selling guns or ammo), thousands of rounds of factory loaded .223 will resell at a higher price and quicker than used guns (even top quality, American ones).
Inflation and depreciation are 2 big factors you should consider when you think about getting a gun (or anything for that matter). Likewise, your operational profile is a big deal too - if a gun has a reasonably lifespan of 100,000 rounds ($42,000 at today's prices), but you'll never shoot more than 10,000 rounds in your lifetime ($4200), is the extra quality really worth the price?
In my opinion, no it's not.
IIRC, the awesome Norinco manual says the rifle have a 5000 round count life expectancy (I doubt it's that low - but let's say it is).
At current prices, 5000 rounds of .223 would run you about $2100 (say $400/1k plus taxes). Ammo prices track real inflation (not BS CPI, that the banks and government lie about) and commodity prices (lead, copper, and nickel being good examples - all of which have enormous upside potential). IMO, this means you're looking at least at a 5-10% annual increase in ammo price. Therefore, the more AMMO you buy now, the greater your long term savings are - as well as the possibility of actually making a huge profit down the road.
If you buy 5000 rounds of ammo now, you will save much more, over if you buy 1000 this year, 1000 a year from now, etc. (As an example, if you see 5% annual inflation, 5000 rounds spaced over 5 years is $2320, whereas buying it all now, it is $2100. 10,000 rounds over 10 years is $5282, while 10000 rounds now is $4200).
I believe there will be runaway inflation and much, MUCH higher commodity prices in the near future (we currently are experiencing a deflationary recession, which governments and banks are responding to by creating a hyper-inflationary depression). Therefore, it's not inconceivable that you may see ammo price skyrocket when the full effects of hyperinflation are realized (which they will shortly).
When this happens does, you will NOT want to be a buyer of ammunition - but I believe there will still be a lot of the guys with high-end AR's who didn't mass buy ammo (or components) now, who will gladly buy factory loaded ammo (or components) from you if you have them.
Guns on the other hand ALWAYS depreciate in value after use, so unless you never plan to shoot it, while price increases for new guns due to inflation MAY mean your resale price may increase (or stay close to or the same as your purchase price), the loss to you due both to inflation and depreciation means even if you have a top quality AR, if you try to resell it you'll never get more for it than you paid for it, and likely get much, much less for it (due to the double whammy of depreciation and inflation).
As for operational use, I own 3 Norc CQ's - one I bought overpriced at $900 when they first came out, 2 with the newer, better quality releases for $700. So even though I overpaid, I still paid as much for 3 rifles with a "by the manual" expected round count lifespan of 15,000 rounds for the price of a single, top quality AR.
Even if I experience a failure with one of my AR's (which I have not yet with a round count of roughly 1000, 500, and 100 between the 3), I have the ability to either swap out parts, or swap out the gun entirely. Thus, I'm not to worried about having a failure at the range, because I always have a backup (or two).
As any Canadian soldier or AR-nut will tell you, even high quality American/Canadian made AR's have failures - sometimes at the most inconvenient time. If you're in a situation where you NEED an AR and it goes down requiring substantial remedial action, having just one functional AR leaves you seriously up the creek without a paddle (for us gunnutz, a ruined trip to the range. To our military friends, a possible loss of life). Fortunately for us civvy's, we don't have the restriction of having just 1 rifle (yet) that our men in uniform have, so long as we can enjoy that privilege, I'm of the opinion you might as well stack em up and keep a few backups.
I shoot my CQ's once, maybe twice a month - probably 50 rounds per month total, meaning for me to hit the "by the manual" end of life for all 3 of my Norinco's, I have about 25 years to go.
If I decide to do some awesome thousand round range shoots, that might be another story (that's what CMMG .22 kits are for), but realistically, given my usage of the gun, odds are I won't be growing out of my AR's for a long, long time.
The big thing I'm worried about though is if there is a financial emergency and I needed to raise some money (by selling guns or ammo), thousands of rounds of factory loaded .223 will resell at a higher price and quicker than used guns (even top quality, American ones).
Inflation and depreciation are 2 big factors you should consider when you think about getting a gun (or anything for that matter). Likewise, your operational profile is a big deal too - if a gun has a reasonably lifespan of 100,000 rounds ($42,000 at today's prices), but you'll never shoot more than 10,000 rounds in your lifetime ($4200), is the extra quality really worth the price?
In my opinion, no it's not.
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Finally, a timely and introspective take on the entire argument - it is and has always been a matter of ammunition (and how much you can shoot) in my books.
Good summation, Harbl.
Wading into this discussion a little late, so a few notes:
1. I shot close to 12k rounds through my Norky M4 before I started to see a noticeable increase in group size (up from 2 MOA to about 4-5MOA with iron sights upto 200m).
2. Ended up replacing the barrel with a 16" middy after ~14k rounds.
3. No other part on the rifle has broken or has been replaced. It still runs like the day I got it (the action and trigger have both gotten wayy smoother of-course).
3. In all the time I have owned it I have had the following failures (as per my log book):
I had two failures to extract in a row last week firing MFS ammo. I suspect that it may be ammo related, but will be giving it a thorough inspection just in case.
As much as my original intention was to not like it (I am a BIG LMT fan) - the rifle has gained my respect regardless of what the internet commandos think.
PS. I do not believe the lower is cast as all signs point to a forging - can anyone substantiate this claim ?
1. I shot close to 12k rounds through my Norky M4 before I started to see a noticeable increase in group size (up from 2 MOA to about 4-5MOA with iron sights upto 200m).
2. Ended up replacing the barrel with a 16" middy after ~14k rounds.
3. No other part on the rifle has broken or has been replaced. It still runs like the day I got it (the action and trigger have both gotten wayy smoother of-course).
3. In all the time I have owned it I have had the following failures (as per my log book):
I had two failures to extract in a row last week firing MFS ammo. I suspect that it may be ammo related, but will be giving it a thorough inspection just in case.
As much as my original intention was to not like it (I am a BIG LMT fan) - the rifle has gained my respect regardless of what the internet commandos think.
PS. I do not believe the lower is cast as all signs point to a forging - can anyone substantiate this claim ?
Damn - that's a lot of lead down range.
I think 100 rounds in a day is a busy day - although I believe my ceiling has been 300 rounds on a carbine course.
BTW - if you want to install a rail system on your CQ, I recommend this one:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/caa-triple-rail-mount-for-ar15-m16-m4-handguard.html
It's not a full rail, but it's long and sturdy enough to get a vertical grip, laser, and iPod on without any gunsmithing (although it can be a bit of a pain to get on - it IS doable).
I'm not sure how well it would do to mount an optic, but I don't think it would be up to the task. Since it's held in place by the Delta ring, I doubt it would hold a zero very well.
http://www.opticsplanet.net/caa-triple-rail-mount-for-ar15-m16-m4-handguard.html
It's not a full rail, but it's long and sturdy enough to get a vertical grip, laser, and iPod on without any gunsmithing (although it can be a bit of a pain to get on - it IS doable).
I'm not sure how well it would do to mount an optic, but I don't think it would be up to the task. Since it's held in place by the Delta ring, I doubt it would hold a zero very well.
ColassalEntry
Regular
- Location
- VANCOUVER!
Heres something Ive learned.
Nobody cares what you shoot.
only thing that matters is what you care about.
Do you care that your shooting a norc? Answer yourself and you'll know whether you need to upgrade or not.
Nobody cares what you shoot.
only thing that matters is what you care about.
Do you care that your shooting a norc? Answer yourself and you'll know whether you need to upgrade or not.
