Sighting in my family's 5 guns, need help

[bandit86]

between us all we have 2 brand new ruger new vaquero, stainless in 357 mag, and 3 tokarev tt-33s. Went to the range with one brand new ruger and 2 beat up tokarevs, could barely hit the paper. Came home, put the laser bore sighter in and it point to m grouping on the corner of the 1.5x1.5ft target, some high, some low, some better but all the sights are way off

I know that on my sks if zero at 25 yards it is accurate again at 200 yards, give or take a hair because the scope is 1.57 to 2 inches above the barrel. HOw does that work on handguns when the barrel is only .5 inches below the sights? If I zero a handgun at 25 yards where will it be on mark again, I know it depends on the ammo. The tokarev is chech surplus, the ruger I use Remington .38 special cowboy load and Winchester 357magnum 110 grain jhp.

Back to aiming, the tokarev are all over, the rear sight on 2 looks like the we're dropped, one aims high and all the way to the left and the front sight looks like it was filed on an angle.

How to move the rear sight without a tool?

One tokarev shoots 6" high at 25, should I file the rear sight, and the 2 that shoot 5 inches low (verified with laser) file the front sight?

The brand new Rugers have a fixed sight. How are they adjusted, and usually to what range?

The club guns I'm used to are .22lr and I Can do 2 inch groupings at 25 yards, but they are all sighted 3 inches low to aim at the bottom of the black bullseye and hit centre. I think I would rather do centered bullseye and get non black targets I can see

I'm open for suggestions gents, thanks for reading

 

[plinker 777]

Hmmm. Best bet is to have someone else shoot the guns or try several more boxes yourself before you go fiddling with the sights. If the gun is shooting high, filing down the sight will only compound your worries. For this situation you need a taller front post.

The Tokarev is not a target pistol, (barks like a b1tch and kicks like a mule) it was designed to put a .32 rd minute of capitalist pig at 25 yards. (4-5" groups and you're there )
The Ruger on the other hand should be quite accurate...put the magnums away for now and practice with .38 target loads (powder charge 60-70% of factory).

My $.02.

 

[Al-Sway]

Using two different loads for your Ruger Vaqueros - .38 Special and then .357 Mag 110 grain loads will usually mean hugely different points of impact. With fixed sight guns you should decide on what load you want to use and practice with that. Once you are down to your normal group size, you can start to mess with the fixed sights to put them on the point of impact. I would not do it before that.

 

[Boomer]

If the Tokarev's rear sight has a shallow notch, filing it down will just make it more difficult to shoot becasue the notch will be harder to see. It needs a taller front sight, or you need to put your target further away. If keeping the gun original is not important to you, you could have after market sights installed on it.

I have an old Vaquero in .44 magnum. I was quite happy with the sighting as it came, but if yours has windage issues, it can be corrected in one of two ways, the barrel can be turned slightly towards the error, or the front sight can be bent slightly towards the error. If elevation is the problem, the only solution is to adjust the height of the front sight, or have adjustable sights fitted to the gun.

Before you make any adjustments to your guns, make sure the errors are repeatable through shooting; your boresighter does not replicate this. Make sure the error is repeatable though several different loads you might use.

 

[highbeam]

I find my Tokarev emphasizes any bad habits I have, it's evident in my lack of groupings. When I'm having a good day suddenly the inaccuracy is gone and that thing shoots to point of aim all day long (surplus rounds too). Everyone seems to say shoot, shoot, shoot, and shoot some more before you think of adjusting pistol sights.

 

[bandit86]

I shot many of them the same day and they all had different groupings, so I'm assuming it's gun related

 

[de-mix]

Handguns dont usually require "sighting in"
You are giving yourself a lot of credit thinking the sights are wrong.

In most cases adjustable sights correct shooter error.
Just like glocks with the rear shifted to one side. Ridiculous!

 

[BCRider]

Actually in the case of the New Vaqueros they do require sighting in. Revolvers will shoot over a wide range of heights depending on the ammo. Bullet weight and powder charge make as much as an 8 inch difference in height at around 15 yards as you go from heavy 158gn bullets in medium power .38Spls up to 124gn bullets in hot Magnum loads. So the fixed sight single action guns come with overly tall front sights that you need to file down to suit the load you are shooting.

A good option for now is to settle on shooting 158gn LRN .38Spl. Of all your options this will be the one that requires you to file off the least amount of front sight. If you want to change to something lighter or hotter later then you can simply remove a little more front sight height.

Windage is normally spot on with these guns. If they are hitting to the side then I would suspect your grip and how you're putting your trigger finger onto the trigger is an issue. But there is no doubt that the front sights are too tall on purpose when they ship out.

The Tok's could well be all over since they are used surplus guns. But do not discount the idea that they were intended and sighted to be shot in the one hand bullseye style of stance. The two handed methods are fairly recent as these things go. And the differences in support when shooting one handed and two handed are enough different that it could make some difference.

A bore sighter on a handgun is of limited usefulness. They will spot windage issues well. But they are not useful for height unless you know what you're looking for. Recoil in handguns plays a larger part in lifting the gun up before the bullet leaves the barrel than it does in rifles. So when I set a ruler across the sights of a revolver I expect to see that the barrel is pointing a good amount lower than the ruler line. On a semi auto you'll see the same thing but to a slightly lesser extent since the bore axis is lower on the semi than the SA gun so there isn't as much lift during the recoil cycle before the bullet leaves on its way.

So all in all it's a lot tougher to sight in a handgun since it has to be done by shooting it. And to do that it relies on the grip and skill of the shooter doing the sighting in. You want someone that can readily provide 3 inch or tighter groups at 20 yards to do this for you. Anthing more open and it suggests that the shooter has a flinch or other issues that make them less than steady.