silver solder project
- Thread starter themouser
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It can quickly become a big mess if you have never done this type of work before, (silver brazing) you need to make a clamp type holding device to keep the sight from moving, put the flux and a thin strip of brazing alloy in between the sight and the barrel, clean all around it, then use a good high heat source to heat the area until you see it flow.
Is there a particular type of silver solder that works best for this? I do silver brazing on copper at work and I know there's different types(silver content, fluxed or non, etc..) But I'm not sure what would be best for gunsmithing applications. I've got a little project I'd like to attempt as well. Don't worry, beat up old shotgun needs some practice work. Not making my first attempt on anything of value.
Mouser, are you willing to repair the burned blueing around the sight after it's done? Because proper silver soldering/silver brazing involves a dull red sort of heat on the steel which WILL burn the blueing around the area.
On the other hand if you're working with a front sight mount with lots of surface area in contact with the barrel or a front blade which fits down into a groove then low temperature "soft" solder will do just fine. It's only if you're soldering a simple blade to a round barrel without any other supportive area that you really need the higher temperature silver solder.
Kennymo, most better welding supply outfits have various styles of silver solder available and know what you need to join steel to steel. If no one answers with a particular alloy for you then trust the guy at such a store.
I've got some that I've used for silver soldering bandsaw blades together and also for some other higher stress items over the years. Sorry but I have no idea which particular alloy it is. I just asked for something that would work for steel to steel. And the bag with the number on it is LONG gone. Like 30 years gone....
On the other hand if you're working with a front sight mount with lots of surface area in contact with the barrel or a front blade which fits down into a groove then low temperature "soft" solder will do just fine. It's only if you're soldering a simple blade to a round barrel without any other supportive area that you really need the higher temperature silver solder.
Kennymo, most better welding supply outfits have various styles of silver solder available and know what you need to join steel to steel. If no one answers with a particular alloy for you then trust the guy at such a store.
I've got some that I've used for silver soldering bandsaw blades together and also for some other higher stress items over the years. Sorry but I have no idea which particular alloy it is. I just asked for something that would work for steel to steel. And the bag with the number on it is LONG gone. Like 30 years gone....
I would recommend Brownell's Force 44 solder... it is a low temperature solder much like regular soft solder but it is not affected by bluing salts nor will it harm bluing salts as the rest of the soft solders do. It is much easier to work with over traditional silver solders which require heating steel red hot.
...Hey BCRider yeah im willing to redue the blueing on barrel and no there is no groove that the front sight sits in. So is the best way to flux both pieces and then place a thin strip of solder inbetween then apply heat as AL Flipo said? Or should I apply silver to each piece seperately then join and apply heat again?
I used a low temp "metal working" solder when I attached a front sight, but there was a milled slot it fit into for added strength. I "tinned" both the groove bottom and sight bottom then stuck the sight in the slot and heated the whole thing until I felt them melt together under the pliers.
If you are dead set to do this, it is best to clamp the thin strip of solder between the cleaned and prepped barrel and sight... the jig needs to be able to hold the sight square to the barrel where you want it and to continue holding it where you want it when you heat the sight and barrel red hot and the solder melts... it's too late for fingertip adjustment at that stage. If the sight moves off line when the solder melts, the job is screwed. Heat it red hot again and remove it and start over.
Lots of cleanup up draw polishing and polishing and bluing after....
I used to make a paste of sperm oil and lamp black and coat the inside of the bore to prevent scaling when the steel is heated red hot. I haven't used high temp silver solder for sights in 30 years... I still have a can of sperm oil.
I have used Uniweld uni-1450A before. It is low temp, food safe, and strong.
You can get it at Home Depot. I soldered a ring back together at the bottom. Very small contact area.
It was strong, and lasted about another 6 months of everyday wear before it broke again.
You can get it at Home Depot. I soldered a ring back together at the bottom. Very small contact area.
It was strong, and lasted about another 6 months of everyday wear before it broke again.
does it work with standard soldering paste, last time I tried to order some from brownells, they refuse to send me the paste that goes with it because of shipping restriction (dangerous cargo)
The jig you make up to hold the solder will need to be sprung. If you simply try to wire it on when the little slip of solder melts and the wire heats up and expands the whole thing will fall apart. So something that is jigged with remote springs or uses gravity is needed.
I've had great luck with making neat joints that require little or no cleanup by hammering the solder into a thin flat ribbon and putting it between the two parts. The faces to be joined are well fluxed. When the solder melts there is so little used that it fills in the gap with virtually no outflow due to the surface tension of the solder holding it in place.
Other than that I'd just be echoing what Guntech has posted already.
Of course there's always that old saw about "practice". If this is a fairly critical project that you really want to make it RIGHT! then it is likely well worth the time and effort to make up a dummy barrel and sight blade from mild steel items and use it to check out the accuracy of your holding jig setup. After all the amount of "product" you're going to use is less than a dime's worth. But the satisfaction of knowing the job is done RIGHT vs the dissapointment of it being even slightly off kilter will last for years.
I've had great luck with making neat joints that require little or no cleanup by hammering the solder into a thin flat ribbon and putting it between the two parts. The faces to be joined are well fluxed. When the solder melts there is so little used that it fills in the gap with virtually no outflow due to the surface tension of the solder holding it in place.
Other than that I'd just be echoing what Guntech has posted already.
Of course there's always that old saw about "practice". If this is a fairly critical project that you really want to make it RIGHT! then it is likely well worth the time and effort to make up a dummy barrel and sight blade from mild steel items and use it to check out the accuracy of your holding jig setup. After all the amount of "product" you're going to use is less than a dime's worth. But the satisfaction of knowing the job is done RIGHT vs the dissapointment of it being even slightly off kilter will last for years.
No sure why everyone in the gun trade tries to buy the silver solder and flux from Brownells . Every welding local welding shop can get every imaginable type of silver solder or silver brazing alloy. The most popular in Canada is the Silvaloy ( Wolverine Alloys ) and Harris ( Lincoln Electric )
. IF you want a low temp alloy such as the Force 44 , then look at the Silvabrite and Silvabrite S or the Harris Stay-Brite
http://w ww.silvaloy.com/docs/Tech%20Sheets/wjt-td-Silvabrite.pdf
http://w ww.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Soldering/Lead-Free-Solders/Stay-Brite.aspx
This is a 4% Silver balance Tin ,similar to the Force 44
Often welding shops have the Silvabrite S ( 5% Silver )
You can also pick up silver Brazing alloys ( 30% to 60% silver ). Much higher melting temp though
If you are in Aldergrove, then go to Western Gasco Welding supplies in Abbotsford . Don't forget the Wolverine flux .
. IF you want a low temp alloy such as the Force 44 , then look at the Silvabrite and Silvabrite S or the Harris Stay-Brite
http://w ww.silvaloy.com/docs/Tech%20Sheets/wjt-td-Silvabrite.pdf
http://w ww.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Soldering/Lead-Free-Solders/Stay-Brite.aspx
This is a 4% Silver balance Tin ,similar to the Force 44
Often welding shops have the Silvabrite S ( 5% Silver )
You can also pick up silver Brazing alloys ( 30% to 60% silver ). Much higher melting temp though
If you are in Aldergrove, then go to Western Gasco Welding supplies in Abbotsford . Don't forget the Wolverine flux .
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Al; your numbers add up to 101% :>) :>) You can buy high temperature silver solder from Praxair here in Nanaimo. Braze 450 is one of the trade names it goes by. Unless I am mistaken, it is 45% silver and 55% copper. That ration of metals gives the lowest melting temperature of the various high temperature silver solders. Melts at 1150 F and flows up around 1400 F (red hot) I think the flux is mostly borax but could be mistaken
cheers mooncoon
It should read 45% silver content and up... (I managed to put a comma in between) ;-). I have been in the metal trade for close to 50 years and I still hate working with that stuff. It turns into a disaster in a blink of an eye. BCRider gives the best explanation on how to use it in this instance.
