Single Shot 45-70 rifle.
- Thread starter Gundoggy
- Start date
Cons first:
The modern miroku 1885 is complex to dissasemble in some places, I havent had the chance to handle the mechaum or C Sharps highwalls. Some versions of the winchester 1885 are pretty cheesy. I have no clue how easy it is to get replacement parts. The original 1885s are pretty expensive in an original configuration.
The 1874 is heavy, bulky, breaks the odd spring once in awhile (every spring in an 1874 is a leaf spring, the lever tension seems prone to breaking the most), if you dont put the hammer to half #### before dropping the lever you run the risk of shearing the firing pin tip off as the retraction is pretty weak. The full sized heavy barrel sharps with a 30 inch plus barrel is not something you want to carry around with you for more then an hour or so, then the nostalgia wears off pretty quick because you feel like your carrying around a road chisel. In any configuration, these guns are expensive, if your ok with 2 to 4 grand sitting in a quad scabbard, or getting touched with bloody hands or gloves or getting dropped or scratched up with tree limbs go ahead then. If they dont have what you want "on the rack" at Big Timber, get ready for a good long wait for them to finish your gun, a couple years.
Pros now:
Modern 1885 is pretty trouble free to use, its really a better gun then the sharps to use, you can get them in some pretty lightweight models if you dont mind the slap its results in. The modern ones are pretty cost effective for what you get.
Shiloh sharps 1874 is a better made gun by far, I shoot a 1874 Long range express and I wouldnt trade it for anything. When you do break a spring, give the factory a call and they'l send you a new one no questions asked. Its a pleasure to shoot. But I rarely hunt with it. The gun is pretty accurate when I do my part.
If its for strictly hunting, your better off getting a ruger #1, cheaper, stronger.
I good midway compromise would be a rolling block, again cheaper, and much simpler to assemble/dissasemble, its a buffalo gun as well. You dont need to worry about shearing a firing pin. A friend of mine shoots a pedersoli RB, and he outshoots me more then I care to think about. You can also have one built up on a swede rolling block action. Most of my hunting is with a 1897 rolling block in 7mm mauser, one day I'l try to make it more "buff gun" looking with an octagon barrel.
Any of the old style single shots are a labour of love to shoot and maintain, if you want to get set up for some target or gong shooting, add another 5 to 700 bucks for a good set of vernier sights, and another few hundred bucks to get set up for casting. If its strictly hunting, your good to go with the sights you have and store bought shells.
The modern miroku 1885 is complex to dissasemble in some places, I havent had the chance to handle the mechaum or C Sharps highwalls. Some versions of the winchester 1885 are pretty cheesy. I have no clue how easy it is to get replacement parts. The original 1885s are pretty expensive in an original configuration.
The 1874 is heavy, bulky, breaks the odd spring once in awhile (every spring in an 1874 is a leaf spring, the lever tension seems prone to breaking the most), if you dont put the hammer to half #### before dropping the lever you run the risk of shearing the firing pin tip off as the retraction is pretty weak. The full sized heavy barrel sharps with a 30 inch plus barrel is not something you want to carry around with you for more then an hour or so, then the nostalgia wears off pretty quick because you feel like your carrying around a road chisel. In any configuration, these guns are expensive, if your ok with 2 to 4 grand sitting in a quad scabbard, or getting touched with bloody hands or gloves or getting dropped or scratched up with tree limbs go ahead then. If they dont have what you want "on the rack" at Big Timber, get ready for a good long wait for them to finish your gun, a couple years.
Pros now:
Modern 1885 is pretty trouble free to use, its really a better gun then the sharps to use, you can get them in some pretty lightweight models if you dont mind the slap its results in. The modern ones are pretty cost effective for what you get.
Shiloh sharps 1874 is a better made gun by far, I shoot a 1874 Long range express and I wouldnt trade it for anything. When you do break a spring, give the factory a call and they'l send you a new one no questions asked. Its a pleasure to shoot. But I rarely hunt with it. The gun is pretty accurate when I do my part.
If its for strictly hunting, your better off getting a ruger #1, cheaper, stronger.
I good midway compromise would be a rolling block, again cheaper, and much simpler to assemble/dissasemble, its a buffalo gun as well. You dont need to worry about shearing a firing pin. A friend of mine shoots a pedersoli RB, and he outshoots me more then I care to think about. You can also have one built up on a swede rolling block action. Most of my hunting is with a 1897 rolling block in 7mm mauser, one day I'l try to make it more "buff gun" looking with an octagon barrel.
Any of the old style single shots are a labour of love to shoot and maintain, if you want to get set up for some target or gong shooting, add another 5 to 700 bucks for a good set of vernier sights, and another few hundred bucks to get set up for casting. If its strictly hunting, your good to go with the sights you have and store bought shells.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Nicely written and thought out Hickstick, I'll be watching for more from you.
As to the price of a new Sharps rifle, they are more affordable today than ever before. At the height of the buffalo slaughter a new Sharps cost about $265! In today's money that would be $100K give or take, but it was a tool of the trade of the buffalo hunters and the cost was recovered in short order if things went well. If you are taken with the styling, history, and nostalgia of these rifles and if you can appreciate them for what they are and can manage the tariff, they're wonderful.
I would however probably not choose the .45/70 version. Not that there is anything wrong with the .45/70 and it is historically correct, but most .45/70s were military rifles or carbines. There are a number of other cartridges that are historically correct and can be made from modern cartridges (the .40-65 can be made from .444 Marlin brass) and the Sharps company of the day chambered several .40, .45, and .50 caliber propriety cartridges bearing the Sharps name. The Sharps 50-140 of movie fame came about after the buffalo were gone, but the .50-110 Sharps was there.
As for me, I do appreciate these rifles, but I'll continue to admire them from afar. On the rare occasion that I do spend several thousand dollars on a new rifle, it will be a modern design.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
The biggest problem with the Ruger No.1 is that if the owner wants to shoot in BPCR matches, he cannot with the Ruger.
The Sharps action is very easy to tear down- one pin , and if one is shooting black powder this is a big plus.
The ighwall types have a faster lock time and have the advantage of not having that big ol' hammer slamming down, but in the end, it's what you want to shoot . I've owned most of them and like them all!
The Italians like the Pedersoli and Uberti are good guns , and a lot less than a C.Sharps.
The H&R Buffalo hunter is probably the least expensive single shot on the market for BPCR guns, and they are also very accurate, and a true old time design!
Cat
Shilohs are really nice. You can get them with very nice double set triggers and the wood is very good. I've got two and they are quite accurate. When you order one you can customize it to your specifications, stock type, wood grade, barrel weight, to some degree the twist, etc.
With respect to the 1885's it all depends which variant you are talking about. The Miroku made versions ( modern Winchester and Browning ) are good value for the money but you can't get a set trigger and the rifle is not available in many configurations. The sights that come with the rifle are not bad but generally not as nice as the MVAs you'll find on a Shiloh.
The original 1885's are very nice if you can find one in good shape. I find that the original stock configurations make for better off- hand shooting than modern reproduction rifles. Some of the originals have absolutely excellent triggers, others not so much.
The C. Sharps 1885's are really nice. I wish that they'd make a double set trigger for them rather than the single set, but it's a pretty nice trigger. The wood grades are not as nice as the Shiloh's, but still pretty darn good. Mine are accurate but have taken more work to make shoot well than my Shilohs.
For a target rifle you can't go wrong with a Shiloh or a C. Sharps I think. The Miroku made 1885's seem to do well in competition too, as do the Pedersolis.
Chris
With respect to the 1885's it all depends which variant you are talking about. The Miroku made versions ( modern Winchester and Browning ) are good value for the money but you can't get a set trigger and the rifle is not available in many configurations. The sights that come with the rifle are not bad but generally not as nice as the MVAs you'll find on a Shiloh.
The original 1885's are very nice if you can find one in good shape. I find that the original stock configurations make for better off- hand shooting than modern reproduction rifles. Some of the originals have absolutely excellent triggers, others not so much.
The C. Sharps 1885's are really nice. I wish that they'd make a double set trigger for them rather than the single set, but it's a pretty nice trigger. The wood grades are not as nice as the Shiloh's, but still pretty darn good. Mine are accurate but have taken more work to make shoot well than my Shilohs.
For a target rifle you can't go wrong with a Shiloh or a C. Sharps I think. The Miroku made 1885's seem to do well in competition too, as do the Pedersolis.
Chris
It totally depends on what you want to do with the rifle. You need to give us a little more info. I have a Ruger #3 in 45-70 that is ideal for hunting. My Shiloh is in 50-110sharps, it is fun to shoot but gets old fast packing it. My Rem rolling block is original & in 50-70. Again nice to shoot but not ideal for hunting. I have a falling Block Works made by Ron Smith in 38-55. This is my BPCR. I don't have a 1885 (yet) but sure like the looks & feel. Again there are lots of options just depends on usage. Good luck Aj
Thanks for all the replies.
I looking for a neat gun to target shoot with. I'm choosing 45-70 for ease of getting factory rounds until I'm set up for reloading. I will not be hunting with it, so weight really isn't an issue.
I also saw the 1885 Winchester at P&D which got me thinking about it as one of the candidates. I originally wanted to get a Shiloh Sharps Quigley but would be just as happy with a rifle with a 28 or 30" barrel. I'd likely stick with a midrange vernier sight since there are few ranges over 600 yards in Alberta (I shoot at ranges only) and my eyesight and my skill is not good enough to be making shots beyond 300 yards anyway.
I spent most of my time collecting and shooting modern pistols and semiautos, as I get older I'm developing an appreciation for the history and the beauty of the older designs!!!
I looking for a neat gun to target shoot with. I'm choosing 45-70 for ease of getting factory rounds until I'm set up for reloading. I will not be hunting with it, so weight really isn't an issue.
I also saw the 1885 Winchester at P&D which got me thinking about it as one of the candidates. I originally wanted to get a Shiloh Sharps Quigley but would be just as happy with a rifle with a 28 or 30" barrel. I'd likely stick with a midrange vernier sight since there are few ranges over 600 yards in Alberta (I shoot at ranges only) and my eyesight and my skill is not good enough to be making shots beyond 300 yards anyway.
I spent most of my time collecting and shooting modern pistols and semiautos, as I get older I'm developing an appreciation for the history and the beauty of the older designs!!!
If its for targets, you will want to learn to reload pretty quick as well as casting. Trying for more then 200 yards with store bought 405 grain loads will discourage you pretty quickly, as will the readily available 405 grain ready cast bullets. You really want some good 500 grain or heavier bullets.
As far as eyesight, the better shooting friend I mentioned is the nearest sighted Polish welder you will ever meet and he does pretty good. He also tried the store bought shell route for targets, with the same frustration. Dont count yourself out, shooting with the vernier sights is not like giving yourself a headache trying to focus through a set of open buckhorn sights.
I dont know if you ever been to the Genessee range (CHAS) outside of Edmonton, but its worth the trip to talk to Randy at the range shack, hes owned various types of rolling blocks, sharps and single shots. If you hammer on the door and bribe him with a cigar you will probably learn all you care to about an old style single shot.
Gundoggy, you may find that you're pleasantly surprised with how well a small aperature target peep sight sharpens your vision for the longer distances. It's almost as good as putting on a set of glasses. You may find that 300 yards to a reasonable size target isn't as bad as you think.
A good long distance single shot companion is a thing of joy. Don't be in a panic to get the rifle and set it up. And brass plus dies for the old time sizes is not hard to find these days. So reloading from day one is not at all unrealistic.
A good long distance single shot companion is a thing of joy. Don't be in a panic to get the rifle and set it up. And brass plus dies for the old time sizes is not hard to find these days. So reloading from day one is not at all unrealistic.
I have a friend who lets me shoot his Pedersoli 1874 Sharps "Quigley". 34" octagonal barrel. Double set trigger. It weighs 13lbs and is chambered in 45-120. He loads his own cartridges: 480gr bullet, 30grains Trail Boss powder. This is a really nice gun to shoot with very manageable recoil. I could shoot it all day, if I could hold it steady after 5 shots! A really beautiful and well built gun.
Ditto for me, although I helped a friend get her husband a Pedersoli Quigley in .45/70 (not 45/120 he doesn't reload, and had a shoulder injury, so I told her 45/70 would be the biggest you'd need for occasional plinking. He is not interested in handloading, so I figured he'd have the best luck getting factory ammo in that caliber)
I shot the beast , and with that neat tang sight I got a 10" five shot group @ 330 yards using leverevolution ammo! I'd never want to carry it around though..........my arms were shaking after 5 consecutive offhand shots. I have a few bolt guns that hover around 9.5lbs and they are about the max I want to lug around all day, good sling or not.
My BPCR 1885 Browning 45-70 is one of the very most accurate and dependable rifles I have ever had.
I shot it in BP matches for many years with surprisingly good results.
My '74 Shiloh is also an excellent and very accurate rifle although because of its chambering would not be an ideal target shooting gun.
If you are an experienced reloader and want to get involved with shooting Black Powder either one would be a fun choice.
However, if you intend to shoot only factory loads or smokeless jacketed loads in either I can't offer any advice as I've never tried either in my BP guns.
With respect to strength the 1885 Browning is the stronger of the two, but both are fine rifles..
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've shot a Rolling Block and an Sharps in competition and I have an 1885 that is a wandering/loading rifle. The problem with the Sharps is that they are usually pretty heavy. Extremely accurate but no more so than other purpose-built competition rifles. I've run a rail of 10 rams with my Roller and with a Remington Hepburn (a rifle to lust after, for sure). For a hunting rifle I like the 1885 because they are very slim and they have the advantage that they #### automatically when you bring the lever up. I'd love a Rolling Block for a hunting rifle too because no matter what you can always chamber a round. The Sharps can break the tip off the firing pin if you yank the lever down without going to half-#### first. Too bad that Lone Star closed when Dave died. They were beautiful rifles.
There really isn't a right or wrong answer. Play with them all and see what you like.
There really isn't a right or wrong answer. Play with them all and see what you like.
