Sizing 7.62x25 with 9mm carbide sizer?

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I have been reading that you can use a 9mm carbide sizer before using the steel tokarev sizer to size tokarev brass without needing lube.

Has anyone does this? What are the results?

It seems to me like the 9mm sizer would be too large and that the steel dies would still be sizing the brass down to tokarev size.
 
Tokarev and 9mm have about the same rim diameter, however Tokarev is tapered but 9mm is straight wall. Hence 9mm sizer would not even touch Tokarevs casing walls.
 
I have never tried what you suggest, but have had experience - twice - with forcing a brass case into a steel sizing die without enough case lube - in both instances, the shell holder ripped off the case rim when I tried to pull that casing back out. So, if you plan to run a brass case into a steel die without case lube, I suggest that you have a plan or the tooling on hand to pull that thing back out, without a rim on the casing, and without messing up the interior die finish.

Re-reading what you posted - maybe is possible that you intended to run that brass into the carbide die, without case lube, and then intend to lube the case and use the steel die. If that is what you meant, I am not sure that I understand the point of trying to size with the carbide die first?
 
Potashminer said:
I have never tried what you suggest, but have had experience - twice - with forcing a brass case into a steel sizing die without enough case lube - in both instances, the shell holder ripped off the case rim when I tried to pull that casing back out. So, if you plan to run a brass case into a steel die without case lube, I suggest that you have a plan or the tooling on hand to pull that thing back out, without a rim on the casing, and without messing up the interior die finish.
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I had the same thing happen with Hornady 222 dies, I hate these things so much. Everything was well lubed, going along and then bam, stuck case. Ripped the rim off the case, was a giant pain.

I like the Lee case sizing lube, I tumbled the cases in that then left them overnight to dry. The next day just run through the steel sizer, then in a safe container pour boiler water over the pile, agitate, drain and spread out to dry, I do not have a wet tumbler ... yet.
 
serg777 said:
Tokarev and 9mm have about the same rim diameter, however Tokarev is tapered but 9mm is straight wall. Hence 9mm sizer would not even touch Tokarevs casing walls.
Click to expand...

That was my thought originally but with the decapper assembly removed a factory loaded tokarev round will not pass through the carbide on that 9mm, so it will size to a point.
 
As Snider shooter suggests - lubing cases may not be an issue with smaller brass cases - both of mine were on shouldered rifle cases - I think first time was with a 308 Win and then second time was with 22-250. They happened like 15 years apart - I needed a "refresher", I guess.

The loading sequence that I use - since perhaps 1980's - I use a Lyman rolling pad, soaked with RCBS Case-Lube 2 - roll cases, resize - then into a "spinner" on a battery drill - trim to length with Lee case gauge thing, chamfer case mouth, then wipe with rag damp with water - while spinning case in the drill. Originally was done with elderly RCBS roller pad, and original oil based RCBS Case Lube - then used rag soaked in white gas (camp stove fuel) to wipe off that lube. RCBS Case Lube 2 is apparently water soluble - seems to come off fine with rag made wet with just water.

Note that "rolling on a lube pad" does not get any lube on the shoulder or the neck - can not say that has ever caused an issue - but inadequate lube on case body certainly has!!!
 
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serg777 said:
Tokarev and 9mm have about the same rim diameter, however Tokarev is tapered but 9mm is straight wall. Hence 9mm sizer would not even touch Tokarevs casing walls.
Click to expand...
Actually the 9mm Para is a tapered case (.392 at the base vs. .380 at the mouth). The Tokarev is also tapered (.380 at the base vs. .370 at the shoulder) so the 9mm die interior diameter is too large to sufficiently size the entire Tokarev case.

However, it should be noted that this two step process can be used successfully with some bottleneck calibres that typically use steel dies. For example, .357 Sig cases can be sized by first running them through a 40 S&W carbide die to size the case body and then running them through a steel .357 Sig size die without lube to size the neck. The neck is very short on these cases so there is not enough surface area to cause sufficient case neck/die friction to make the case stick. I have sized thousands of .357 Sig cases using this technique and never had a stuck case. The same process can also be used to size 400 Cor-Bon cases. Run the case through a 45 ACP carbide die to size the case body and then run the case into a 400 Cor-Bon steel size die to size the neck.

This technique works well with straight walled cases. Tapered cases may get partially properly sized with this technique but whether that would allow for reliable feeding would probably depend on whether the chamber dimensions of the gun were tight or loose.

Since it requires an extra step it is more labour intensive but it sure beats having to lube cases. If you are loading on a progressive with enough stations for the extra die there really is no more work involved.
 
I have two firearms that use the 7.62x25 cartridge - TT33 and the Norinco NP762. I went down this path years ago, but my steel Lee dies **require** me to finish my round in a 9mm die or they will not chamber in the TT33. I blame the Lee dies, as factory ammo (S&B) or milsurp work fine in both my pistols. However, the Lee dies will result in ammo that chambers in the NP762 so take that with a grain of salt.

I use my turret press, followed by a single stage press (set-up side by side on my bench). My process is: Hornady one-shot my cases, let dry, resize in Lee sizing die, prime, powder, projectile, Lee Factory Crimp die, then take the finished round and put through a 9mm resizing die with the decapping pin removed (then wipe down the case to remove lube). This process, for me, ensures 100% chambering in both my pistols. Without the 9mm resizing die, many (most?) reloaded cartridges would not chamber in my TT33.

I found this tip on a US online forum and have been reloading this way since the days of cheap TT33s (like $199 or whatever they were).

YMMV.
 
The 9mm is a tapered round despite was was already said. It should work fine. I will add that despite using LEE dies I have never had any need at all for lube when sizing x25 or any other similar necked pistol case. It makes it slightly smoother but it is not at all necessary, for me at least.
 
I do it all the time. Station one in my four die progressive press is a 9mm Luger carbide die. Station two is the 7.62x25 sizing die. Three is powder through, 4 is seat/ crimp. I also occasionally use the Lee budge buster kit to push through my x25 cases to resize the heads - where required. Some surplus x25 ammo have oversized heads - to the point that some cases won't chamber. The kit even works with nasty steel cased ammo with oversized heads. GOOD WORK LEE!

However, my main use of my Lee 9mm budge buster kit is to deal with any random cases fired in a Gen 1 or 2 Glock that I made end up with. These cases will often have budge problems that can't be resolved with normal full length resizing. I don't have a Glock gen 1 or 2 (which had chambers that WAY exceeded SAAMI specs), but if you accidentally end-up with brass fired from one of these - and you conventionally reload that stuff for any other 9mm gun - you could have problems.
 
serg777 said:
Tokarev and 9mm have about the same rim diameter, however Tokarev is tapered but 9mm is straight wall. Hence 9mm sizer would not even touch Tokarevs casing walls.
Click to expand...

Sorry not true.
9mm is a tapered case. .391 to .380.
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Using anything but the proper dies is stupidity.
 

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Janeau - most production engineering drawings that I am familiar with, will give a "+/-" tolerance for dimensions that they use. I doubt that many things made these days to "0.000" tolerance - is almost always "plus/minus" .001", or .002" or more, or sometimes is -0.000" up to +0.003", or +0.000" to -0.002", and so on. Do you know what are the tolerances on the drawings that you posted? - is often a statement made in a "legend" to the side of the drawing, if not shown with the numbers.
 
Take them from SAMI.
This change nothing..those two are not compatible.
Talking tolerances, there is more chance the different manufacturers dies set be on the generous side or over tight than cartridge case.
9mm and 7.62x25 are used worldwide in different guns of different areas. The cartridge specs are not in cause at all. Those two rounds are proven.they are standards and ammo manufacturers from different countries got those dialed in.
9x19 since 1908 and 7.62x25 since 1930. Take ammo from this early and they will work in todays guns. This is how well within specs they are.

So using tolerances as an excuse to try to use the wrong die for the job does not fly.
 
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wasa said:
I have two firearms that use the 7.62x25 cartridge - TT33 and the Norinco NP762. I went down this path years ago, but my steel Lee dies **require** me to finish my round in a 9mm die or they will not chamber in the TT33. I blame the Lee dies, as factory ammo (S&B) or milsurp work fine in both my pistols. However, the Lee dies will result in ammo that chambers in the NP762 so take that with a grain of salt.

I use my turret press, followed by a single stage press (set-up side by side on my bench). My process is: Hornady one-shot my cases, let dry, resize in Lee sizing die, prime, powder, projectile, Lee Factory Crimp die, then take the finished round and put through a 9mm resizing die with the decapping pin removed (then wipe down the case to remove lube). This process, for me, ensures 100% chambering in both my pistols. Without the 9mm resizing die, many (most?) reloaded cartridges would not chamber in my TT33.

I found this tip on a US online forum and have been reloading this way since the days of cheap TT33s (like $199 or whatever they were).

YMMV.
Click to expand...

I pulled the barrel off mine, first time taking this gun apart, actually the first time taking a semi auto pistol apart, I know, I know. Anyway, my reloads chamber :), if I just tumble all the brass, size it all at once and then clean it up in a tumbler I should be good to stick without the 9mm sizer and not worry about things.
 
I don't know about the OP, but I've used the 9mm sizing die and expander ball to make 9x21 and 9x23 cases. The brass has to be annealed to dead soft first and even then, a few collapsed shoulders and split necks still happen, but it's easier than finding difficult to find brass these days.
 
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