I have been collecting lead and plan to get into casting. I have not found much info on sizing. I assumed if you wanted a .458 bullet you would buy a .459 bullet mold and size it down using a .458 sizing die. Then I read Buffalo Rifles of the old west and Mike Venturino uses a sizing die .001 larger than the bullet mold size. It is to get more lube on the bullet. Would you size it down for smokeless and up for black powder?
Sizing cast bullets
- Thread starter Garyg
- Start date
Generally you size bullets .001 to .002 larger then your barrel diameter.
I personally don't bother sizing so I use lee tr molds. They just need a quick coat of lee liquid alox. But I'm fairly new to casting.
I only cast for my 45acp and 357mag., no rifle yet.
I personally don't bother sizing so I use lee tr molds. They just need a quick coat of lee liquid alox. But I'm fairly new to casting.
I only cast for my 45acp and 357mag., no rifle yet.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Southern Yukon
I've only been casting for a year or so, but do lots of reading up on it.
Based on my reading and experience with maybe 8 - 10 loads myself, I'd say only size if you need to, and it is always worth trying to shoot your bullets 'as cast'.
Also, as far as size of bullets go, generally the largest diameter bullet you can possibly squeeze down your barrel tends to give the best performance, regardless of what the "standard" size bullet for that bore "should" be. I've heard of fellows shooting .313 cast bullets "made for" 303's out of their .308 win's instead, and getting great results for example.
Based on my reading and experience with maybe 8 - 10 loads myself, I'd say only size if you need to, and it is always worth trying to shoot your bullets 'as cast'.
Also, as far as size of bullets go, generally the largest diameter bullet you can possibly squeeze down your barrel tends to give the best performance, regardless of what the "standard" size bullet for that bore "should" be. I've heard of fellows shooting .313 cast bullets "made for" 303's out of their .308 win's instead, and getting great results for example.
Buckbrush had a good point with the throat diameter if you measure it. Many people size to .001" or .002" over the groove diameter of their barrel after slugging it by driving a soft lead ball through with a rod and lube. If you haven't done this a good starting place is .001-.002" thou over the normal jacketed bullet size. So for a .45/70 that uses .458 jacketed you would try .459 and .460 cast bullets. If you had a mold that cast .460" I would just use it as is and not bother to size. Too big is usually not a problem with cast bullets as long as the case still chambers easily. Lot's of people get stuck with molds that cast too small and have to get custom molds or ream/polish out theirs for the gun they want to cast for.
I shoot nothing but .311 cast bullets through my Norc M305 and they work great. I shoot as cast .4605's through my .45-70 and they are quite accurate (when I don't drive them too hard since they don't have gas checks.)
If you want to get into cast bullet shooting a chrony is very helpful; almost mandatory. Plain base bullets have an fps limit of 1400-1600 in my experience before accuracy goes to heck but some say they can get up to 1800fps before that happens. I guess it has more to do with the rifle. Also Marlin micro-grove rifling wants larger bullets off the bat, usually .003" over nominal bore diameter at a minimum.
The alloy you use can also effect the size. Alloys high in tin tend to expand when quenched in water after casting (as it drops from the mould) and you can get .001" or more from this (depending on diameter to start with.) With the above mentioned .45-70 bullet mould they drop, when quenched, at .4605" using wheel weight alloy but I tried casting some from pure lead and they came out at .4590" which is what the mould I'm using was listed as.
Lots of information on casting over at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
@hk33ka1
A lot of .45-70's actually slug .457, at least modern ones, just fyi.
*Edit*
Also this book is amazing for how much advice and information it contains http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/publications/cast-bullet4.php
I checked and Amazon.ca doesn't carry it. I bought it from a local store that deals a lot in reloading tools and components.
If you want to get into cast bullet shooting a chrony is very helpful; almost mandatory. Plain base bullets have an fps limit of 1400-1600 in my experience before accuracy goes to heck but some say they can get up to 1800fps before that happens. I guess it has more to do with the rifle. Also Marlin micro-grove rifling wants larger bullets off the bat, usually .003" over nominal bore diameter at a minimum.
The alloy you use can also effect the size. Alloys high in tin tend to expand when quenched in water after casting (as it drops from the mould) and you can get .001" or more from this (depending on diameter to start with.) With the above mentioned .45-70 bullet mould they drop, when quenched, at .4605" using wheel weight alloy but I tried casting some from pure lead and they came out at .4590" which is what the mould I'm using was listed as.
Lots of information on casting over at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
@hk33ka1
A lot of .45-70's actually slug .457, at least modern ones, just fyi.
*Edit*
Also this book is amazing for how much advice and information it contains http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/publications/cast-bullet4.php
I checked and Amazon.ca doesn't carry it. I bought it from a local store that deals a lot in reloading tools and components.
I think the sizer Mike Venturino is talking about might be a lubrisizer that is a bit of a machine that melts lube and squeezes lube onto the bullet as it is pushed into the sizing die. At least that's how I think that system works. The cheaper system that I use is the Lee push through dies. Just a little stem that clips into the shellholder part of your press, and a hollow body part that screws into the top part. Just place a bullet on the stem, pull the lever down, and the bullet gets (hopefully) squeezed down to the right size that you want.
It also crimps on gas checks, if your bullet needs them. Gas checks are little copperish, shallow cups that stick onto the base of most higher speed rifle bullets. For lower velocity pistol stuff, gas checks aren't usually used. The base of your bullet will tell you if it's a gas check or not. If the base is full caliber size as the rest of the bullet, no gas checks. If there is a slightly smaller part at the base, then gas checks are needed. You can only buy gas checks in 1000 packs, and Hornady is about the only mfgr or them, unless you buy a checkmeker and make your own from beer cans, or sheets of shimstock.
Like Lutnit said, you can get a lot of info from the Castboolits website.
It also crimps on gas checks, if your bullet needs them. Gas checks are little copperish, shallow cups that stick onto the base of most higher speed rifle bullets. For lower velocity pistol stuff, gas checks aren't usually used. The base of your bullet will tell you if it's a gas check or not. If the base is full caliber size as the rest of the bullet, no gas checks. If there is a slightly smaller part at the base, then gas checks are needed. You can only buy gas checks in 1000 packs, and Hornady is about the only mfgr or them, unless you buy a checkmeker and make your own from beer cans, or sheets of shimstock.
Like Lutnit said, you can get a lot of info from the Castboolits website.
Lubrisizers only need a heater if you are using a really hard lube for high velocity (3000+ fps? dunno, never went that far). If you are casting for lower velocities the super hard lubes aren't required (and actually wont lubricate at all from what I've read). I've gone up to 2200ish fps with gas checked bullets only using Lee liquid alox. I size them all to .311" because I'm lazy and want to use the same projectiles to load all my .308 cartridges as well as 7.62x54R (~.310").
I couldn't get even .431's to shoot without leading horribly in my Marlin lever because of the Micro-grove rifling.
.437" round balls (mould was listed as .433") work great as a cheap plinking load in my Marlin. Magnum pistol primer and 12 grains of Unique pushes them so slow you can watch them drop as they go down range.
Copper gas checks are pretty standard but there are also a lot of people selling aluminum gas checks privately now. I picked up 1000x .30 cal (used for anything from .307 to .312) and 1000x 8mm and they work just as well as the twice the price Hornady ones.
I couldn't get even .431's to shoot without leading horribly in my Marlin lever because of the Micro-grove rifling.
.437" round balls (mould was listed as .433") work great as a cheap plinking load in my Marlin. Magnum pistol primer and 12 grains of Unique pushes them so slow you can watch them drop as they go down range.
Copper gas checks are pretty standard but there are also a lot of people selling aluminum gas checks privately now. I picked up 1000x .30 cal (used for anything from .307 to .312) and 1000x 8mm and they work just as well as the twice the price Hornady ones.
Rifle spec for 44mag is .431" in the marlin micro groove rifles. Its based on 44-40 and has the same twist of 1-38". I can't shoot anything under .432" if I want to avoid cleaning copious amounts of lead out of the barrel.
The point here is that you need to slug your barrel and choose a suitable mold from there. Or lap it out a bit and hope for the best.
Casting is easy and can be very enjoyable but educate yourself before and you will enjoy it 10 times more as you won't make as many rookie mistakes.
The point here is that you need to slug your barrel and choose a suitable mold from there. Or lap it out a bit and hope for the best.
Casting is easy and can be very enjoyable but educate yourself before and you will enjoy it 10 times more as you won't make as many rookie mistakes.
