SKS, 858 and Milsurp Ammo Test RESULTS POSTED

Ganderite

Ganderite

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I have been intending to do this test for quite some time. I want to know:

Does some milsurp 7.62x39 ammo group better than others?
What can be expected from good milsurp ammo?
What kind of groups can be expected from a SKS?
Does the CZ858 group better than the SKS?

Tomorrow I go to the range to find out. I will bench shoot at 100 yards with 3 bolt rifles in 7.62x39, a 858 and 2 SKS rifles.

The bolt rifles have scopes of at least 9X. The two SKS have 4X cheap compact scopes (by cheap I mean $20) and the 858 has a Sparc red dot with a 2X magnifier.

For ammo I have 6 different samples of common milsurp:

Czech blue box
Russian and Romanian, from the last two sales at Lebaron
Polish, as comes with the Marstar SKS deal
Yugo.
Wolf non-corrosive HP
Mexican match made from Romanian ammo and Hornady 123gr SP.

sksammotest7.jpg



The bolt guns will fire all the different ammos and be used to get an idea of how the various ammos compare. I built a 7.62x39 test rifle for this project. It is a Rem788 with an old target rifle barrel chambered in 7.62x39. The 308Win chamber and worn throat was cut off, so this barrel is in good shape. It is now about 20". With handloading and good bullets I assume it will get well under an inch. I have not yet fired a shot from it.

sksammotest9.jpg


The the best 2 milsurp ammos and the Mexican match will be shot in the two SKS and 858 to get an idea of what can be expected from those rifles with decent ammo.

Time permitting, I will try 3 kinds of ammo in my Norinco M4, to see what kind of accuracy it is capable of, off a bench.
sksammotest15.jpg


Stay tuned for more pictures and results, tomorrow.
 
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It's awesome to see someone do this in a very meticulous and systematic manner. Too often I read "accuracy is pretty good". What does that even mean???

Thanks in advance.
 
Interesting. It would have been nice to see a handload in the mix as well (although the "Mexican Match" is, in a way).

As for results, some ammo is notoriously inconsistent (e.g. MFS) - some batches and even some rounds within a batch are better than others.
 
Ok, I am back from the range. The shooting went reasonably well. Except I forgot to bring the targets home. (My age is rapidly approaching my IQ.) Fortunately, my host at the Guelph range recognized my error and picked up the targets. I will get them tomorrow.

But there are some things I can share now:

the heavy barreled Rem788 handled all the ammo well, even though it is a 308 barrel. No extraction problems or signs of pressure.

The milsurp all shot somewhat the same. I could probably cover most the groups with a coffee cup lid.

The CZ grouped better than the SKS, even though it had a red dot, not a scope.

The 3 SKS rifles all grouped about the same. A bread plate would cover the groups. maybe a few were saucer sized.

I tested two different brake designs on my CZ858. The CZ style worked well. The little AK style one had a fairly violent push down on the muzzle. But the detents positioned the brake at either 11 or 1 o'clock. Logic say the brake should be vertical. Yes?

I tested 3 kinds of ammo in my Norico M4. 55, 62 & 69 gr handloads and IVI. I think the 55 was best at around 3 inches. This was disappointing.

On the other hand, my #4T shot very well. The 174 MK with 39gr RL15 (a mild load) grouped close to an inch.

I took a stack of 50 yard pistol targets. They are about 2 feet square. I posted these backwards, and stapled a 4x6" black square as an aiming mark. I aimed at each corner of the square, giving me 4 groups per sheet of paper.

SKSAMMOTESTGUELPH2.jpg


There was a rack of rifles behind me, waiting to be shot.

SKSAMMOTESTGUELPH3.jpg


Here are the brakes. The little one needs a new detent notch filed in it.

SKSAMMOTESTGUELPH7.jpg




Tomorrow I will post the actual results. But now I have some rifles to clean....
 
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The AK device is a compensator but it is designed to be offset left or right to counter-act barrel torque depending on LH or RH twist. 12 o'clock will push straight down making it worse than it is now. On the 858 it should angle to the right (when looking from behind the rifle) The other one is an AK-74 design, I take it both were made for Yugo SKS'? Give the Dlask AKM a try if you like the look, mine is nice for offhand shooting with an 18.5" barrel. In completely unrelated news, your No4T is drool-worthy :) The big question I have is how does the Russian surplus stack up against the Czech? In terms of accuracy and powder fouling? I find the Czech to be very dirty ammo which really drags out cleaning sessions. Anyways, good work and thanks for the report :cheers:
 
The #4T is one that was never issued. It is new. Or was was until today. now it has been shot. I note that it was made the same year I was.

Here is a better picture of it being shot by my host at the Guelph Club.

SKSAMMOTESTGUELPH5.jpg


Angle to the right? Ok will try that. Seem strange. The other brake vents vertically.

Edit: I have been thinking about this. I recall my full autos climb from 7 o'clock to 1 o'clock, so a slight angle on the brake would make sense.

I was not cleaning between groups, so cannot comment on fouling. But I have broken some down and find some is extruded powder and some is ball. The ball is probably dirtier. I will note this in my report.

I was too busy to spend time looking at the groups, but my impression is that the 858 was twice as big as the Remington, and the SKS shot groups twice as big as the 858. A friend commented that the groups are in line with the cost of the rifles. You get what you pay for.
 
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Venom-Bullet asked " By the way what is that paper on the side of your M4?"

The rifle is zeroed for 200 yards. The bullet crosses the sight axis at 25 yards. I shoot CQB with it (close range shooting). At 30 yards I have to aim a bit low, and at 20, 15 and 10 yards, I have to aim high. The paper is a reminder of where the rifle hits at close ranges. (I am old. I need all the reminders I can get.)
 
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I am knee deep is shot up targets. The results have been tabulated.
TARGETS.jpg


Each target has 2 to 4 groups on it. As the groups were fired, notes were made at the firing point of where the group was on the target. When the target was retrieved, I wrote the rifle and ammo used on each group, so there would be no confusion later.
TARGET.jpg


This is not a statically valid test. More rifles and more groups of each ammo would be required, but the results are good enough for my immediate needs.

My conclusions:

--Milsurp 7.62x39 ammo is about 2 minute ammo.

--The CZ858 shoots it around 4 minutes (with a red dot). With a scope maybe around 3 minutes.

-- The MarkX Mini Mauser does not shoot very well for a bolt action rifle. may not do as well as the 858. ??

--My 3 SKS rifles delivered around 5 minutes.

Remington 788, 12X Redfield scope. heavy 308 1:13 match barrel 100 yards off sandbags

Russian (Lebarons, last year) 2.4"
Czech (blue box) 1.0" !!
Romanian (Lebarons right now) 2.5"
Polish (Marstar right now) 1.87"
Yugo 1.35"
Wolf non-corr HP 1.21
Romanian with Hornady 123 SP bullet 24.5gr 1.91"
Romanian with Hornady 123 SP bullet 25.5gr 1.18"
Romanian with powder charge reduced to 18gr for CQB rapid fire 1.95" Prints about 4 " lower.

Mark X Mini Mauser 4X Redfield

Russian (Lebarons, last year) 3.85"
Czech (blue box) 6.0"
Romanian (Lebarons right now) 3.1"
Polish (Marstar right now) 6.15"
Romanian with Hornady 123 SP bullet 24.5gr 5.23"
Romanian with Hornady 123 SP bullet 25.5gr 4.0"


CZ858with Vortex Sparc and 2X eyepiece
Russian 4.9"
Czech 3.3"

SKS #1 Chinese military 4X scope
Russian 5.0""
Czech no target

SKS #2 Norinco 4X scope
Russian 3.9"
Czech 5.35"

SKS #3 Russian re-furb 4X scope
Russian 8.3"
Czech 6.5
 
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wonderful! thank you very much for your hard work and great thread, it is appreciated. I am yet to fire my sks under range conditions. It has a couple of chipped lands right at the crown, I will post my results as it will be interesting to see how tolerant they are for common wear and abuse. What sort of condition was the rifling and crown on the sks you used?
 
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