Sling position on M1?

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I cross posted this in another area, but haven't heard anything so I thought I'd post it here:

Can someone with an M1 handy tell me how far from the base-plate the lower sling loop is located?

I'm trying to match the attachment geometry of an Enfield to an old rucksack that was designed to hold an M1, and I get the impression the Enfield's lower sling loop is too close to the butt plate, which is offsetting the whole rifle upwards when on the pack.
 
1942 mountain pack, designed for US ski troops back in the day but surplused almost new in the post WWII disposal binge.


Its design implements some interesting ideas, but it is a line of development that didn't catch on.

I'm interested to try it out for fun.
 
The rifle, I believe. I think that's what they're carrying in this photo.

pack_mountain_wwii_700.jpg


I just now clued into the fact that they are both referred to as the "M1". I should have specified that from the beginning.
 
>ask yourself why

That's the main part of the joy of it for me, actually. Different approaches to old problems, finding out the why of how it failed, and then trying to invert those failures into "what were you trying to do with it?"

I already know that they traded off weight capacity for freedom of motion, and bulk load capacity for a low CofG (although as you can see above, they then promptly stuffed them full in cheerful ignorance of those limitations).

You can see it in the picture; how the middle guy is leaning forward to balance.

Then there were the materials limitations of 70 years ago, too; cad plated steel buckles everywhere.

On the original question, I saw (at the gun show today) an Enfield and Garand right next to each other. The overall length and sling positions are within 1" of each other, so the sailboat-mast thing is caused by something else I'm doing wrong.

Thank you all for your input.
 
That Swiss looks like one for transport, but not too handy to get at.

I wanted to try the 1942 because (assuming I can figure out that right arm transfer) it promises to stay reasonably accessible.

I'll keep experimenting, in my spare hours. Almost got the Mazda back together this PM.
 
I forwarded the question of how these were used to the 10th Mountain Division association in Denver. They don't have historical documents about it any more, but a member of their "Living History Display Group" responded with information. That information is posted below with his permission:

My role has been to work with the veterans to determine how equipment was used, as well as the development of that equipment.

The rifle attachment was as you describe. The hook on the frame was probably bend in post war use, as this hook was frequently used to hold canteens, climbing equipment, etc.

I am tall, yet have found that the muzzle of a M1 Garand hits the ground if deployed as the Army intended. The drill was to release the strap with the left hand, pushing the muzzle of the rifle to the rear. As the rifle fell, it pivoted at the butt swivel and was caught by the right hand extended down and to the rear. To clear the ground, the muzzle is swung wide and to the far right, and the weapon brought to the hip to be fired. It could be detached as needed for aimed fire, but rapid deployment was intended for firing from the hip. (Really!)

In practice, the soldier undid the strap, and the soldier's buddy helped unlimber the rifle or the pack was removed and the rifle detached once the pack was dismounted. As they were not used in combat in this manner the design was never revised.

In Viet Nam where these packs did see combat, the rifle strap was only employed to carry extra weapons like the M79, as your prime weapon was always to be in your hands.

I hope this helps.


I'm very pleased to see that there is someone who a) maintains this information, and b) is willing to share their expertise.

Looking at the dimensions, I'm fairly certain that this maneuver would put the muzzle into the mud for me as well but I'll try it with a helper.
 
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