Small slip stones for gunsmithing - Canadian sources?

Flying Beaver

Flying Beaver

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I'm contemplating doing a bit of work on the trigger of my SKS. :eek:

I found a very detailed five-part video "how-to" for a trigger job on the SKS here on YouTube:

ht tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpP4sfvWJlM

In the video, the guy doing the work uses a couple of small fine abrasive stones - dimensions about 1/4" x 1/4" x 3" (rough guess).

I haven't seen any sets of small stones of this size & shape for sale by my usual Canadian tool sources - I already have sets of needle files, but none are anywhere near as fine as the stones.

A few U.S. sites like Brownells have sets available of both "India" stones (medium hardness) and Arkansas (ultra-hard) gunsmithing stones at prices that take your breath away. :(

I'm wondering if any of my fellow Nutz know of a Canadian source for a starter set of three or four small slip stones, or even individual stones with the dimensions as given above. If the price was not through the roof, that would be even better.

I could probably do most of the work in the videos with fine/super-fine grades of wet-dry sandpaper wrapped around a piece of square aluminum bar stock, or even a straight-edged stick. But it would be nice to add the proper tools - or some of them, anyway - to my small specialized 'gunsmithing' collection.

Any information or assistance greatly appreciated. :D
 
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I've used quite a lot of stones for everything from sharpening to polishing triggers and other components. Although you can get buy with some stones from local tool shops and mostly work well, there is a good reason for purchasing stones from Brownells. The stones are the correct size and the grit is proper. If you're just starting out get some of the smaller stores from wherever but I'll bet you eventually get some good stones, if not from Brownells then from a supply store that will charge you about the same as from Browny's. Good luck with your findings. By the way, you can try Lee Valley tools, but as I said, you'll pay at least as much as from Brownells.
 
big boar said:
I've used quite a lot of stones for everything from sharpening to polishing triggers and other components. Although you can get buy with some stones from local tool shops and mostly work well, there is a good reason for purchasing stones from Brownells. The stones are the correct size and the grit is proper. If you're just starting out get some of the smaller stores from wherever but I'll bet you eventually get some good stones, if not from Brownells then from a supply store that will charge you about the same as from Browny's. Good luck with your findings. By the way, you can try Lee Valley tools, but as I said, you'll pay at least as much as from Brownells.
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Well, fair enough. I've been working with my hands and tools long enough to know that good tools are always a good investment, and end up cheaper in the long run. I have Snap-On tools I bought at least 35 years ago, and they're as good as the day I bought them; I probably could have worn out dozens of chinese cheapos over the same period.

I have large stones for sharpening turning tools and plane irons, but they're too large to be handy for this kind of work. They weren't cheap either.

One of the unanswered questions in selecting small stones from Brownie's or wherever is which stones to buy, i.e. which will be the most used or required, and therefore the most useful. My Scots blood hates spending money on tools which are good, but which are not appropriate for the job at hand, and end up sitting in a drawer.

I am inexperienced with using this particular type of tool for this particular type of work; it's hard to judge without having prior "hands-on" experience.

Addendum: A Brownell's "starter set" gives some hints as to shapes and sizes:
ht tp://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=16625/product/ARKANSAS_STONE_SET


Just wish Brownells had an outlet in Canada, or that there was a Canadian supplier who carried a similar selection and quality. Cross-border shopping by mail is a p.i.t.a.
 
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Take a look through jewellers and clock-and-watchmakers supply companies. Most watchmaker's/clockmaker's tools are fairly well suited to smaller gunsmithing tasks. For Calgary you might try "Kens Gems" (google the name and you should get the number/address). Take a look on eb*y and other websites. There are no U.S. restrictions on shipping watchmakers tools :~)
 
Flying Beaver said:
....I could probably do most of the work in the videos with fine/super-fine grades of wet-dry sandpaper wrapped around a piece of square aluminum bar stock, or even a straight-edged stick......
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DON'T! With larger surface areas the sandpaper would work. But for small areas such as hammer hooks or trigger sears the paper is far too spongy to retain the flat faces and crisp angles needed for trigger work.

I know that the india and arkasas files aren't cheap. But there's no substitute. And you only need a couple of them to do basic trigger tuning jobs.

One other option that still isn't cheap is the Spyderco ceramic file set that seems to sell for around $50.
 
Lee Valley tools has some small slips and stones.

Most Machine tool supplies places carry some small stones as well.

Do a search for "Ruby files". Not real cheap, but they last.

Otto Frei or Grobet File Co. both carry extensive selections.

There are several companies that deal in synthetic stones exclusively (ie:manmade abrasives), that usually have some representation at the machine tool shows. The big users tend to be in the tool and die trades and mold makers, so they tend not to be on a lot of folks radar.

If you don't mind dinkin' around with the stuff, diamond past is pretty affordable (check out Richontools), as is copper or cast iron to embed it in. As long as you are using it on a harder material than your slip, there is little chance to contaminate your workpiece.

3M makes a few plastic based abrasive sheets that can be glued to a rigid backing. Lee Valley carries some.

Brownell's isn't the cheapest place to buy the stuff, but they have gathered together a lot of the applicable stuff from different sources, into one catalog. It may be a PITA to buy cross border, but mostly, it's that, pay someone on this side to cross-border shop for you (with mark-up), or live without. Most of the time, you are not going to beat their prices, unless you can buy wholesale.

KBC shows some India stone files on page 610.

Cheers
Trev
 
One of my first thoughts was Lee Valley as well. But I only saw water stone slips and files. And those wear quite quickly when sharpening stuff. Not a good choice for gunsmithing.

The ruby stones or white ceramic stones would be good. I found that Spyderco has a 4 stone set in a small seude leather case that runs about $50 to $60 in the US from different sources.

KBC doesn't seem to have the really fine ceramic or Arkansas stones that are better for the fine stuff than India stones.

The plastic sheet stuff would suffer from the same drawback as using fine sandpaper. The backing will act as a cushion and tend to round the small faces involved in stoning the small areas invovled in actions.
 
Tharjoe said:
Take a look through jewellers and clock-and-watchmakers supply companies. Most watchmaker's/clockmaker's tools are fairly well suited to smaller gunsmithing tasks. For Calgary you might try "Kens Gems" (google the name and you should get the number/address). Take a look on eb*y and other websites. There are no U.S. restrictions on shipping watchmakers tools :~)
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Will do, and thank you for the suggestion
 
BCRider said:
DON'T! With larger surface areas the sandpaper would work. But for small areas such as hammer hooks or trigger sears the paper is far too spongy to retain the flat faces and crisp angles needed for trigger work.

I know that the india and arkasas files aren't cheap. But there's no substitute. And you only need a couple of them to do basic trigger tuning jobs.

One other option that still isn't cheap is the Spyderco ceramic file set that seems to sell for around $50.
Click to expand...

Well, one of the great things about CGN is that I get to learn from others who are more experienced in areas I'm not. I'll be sure not to use the block/sandpaper method.

I saw the Spyderco ceramic set advertised in several places, including Ebay and Amazon, of all places, as well as Brownells. My experience with ceramic abrasives in other areas has been good, so I had them marked down as something to look into.

One thing I noticed on Brownells web site is that they have a couple of different "starter sets" of Arkansas stones. My impression (although it's not stated explicitly) is that some of the sets contain stones are harder/finer than others, even though both are "Arkansas". Am I better to go with a softer/medium grit Arkansas stone for starters, and then fine/hard for finishing up? This is the usual pattern of finishing when working on other types of material.

If I'm was to place an order with Brownells, I'd prefer to get the ones best suited for this type of job.

Thanks for the good advice and info.
 
BCRider said:
One of my first thoughts was Lee Valley as well. But I only saw water stone slips and files. And those wear quite quickly when sharpening stuff. Not a good choice for gunsmithing.

The ruby stones or white ceramic stones would be good. I found that Spyderco has a 4 stone set in a small seude leather case that runs about $50 to $60 in the US from different sources.

KBC doesn't seem to have the really fine ceramic or Arkansas stones that are better for the fine stuff than India stones.

The plastic sheet stuff would suffer from the same drawback as using fine sandpaper. The backing will act as a cushion and tend to round the small faces involved in stoning the small areas involved in actions.
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Yes, I noticed that with the Lee Valley stones as well. Water stones have their place, but for trigger work it sounds like they're not the best.

I checked the KBC 2010 catalog, and found some India stones in the small sizes, but no Arkansas. You mention that India stones are not as good for fine work, so I'd be hesitant to order a bunch from them.

I guess now the only question is which of the Brownells Arkansas stones are the best for the job.
 
Take a look at these guys.

http://www.borideabrasives.com/product.php?prod=2776

I got a couple of their deburring stones at a machine tool show a while back, and they have proven to be pretty handy. Finally found one that still had the name readable on it.

They have stones that they are using on high Rockwell hardness mold and die steels, and the sticks are available in a lot of shapes, sizes, and grits.

They are pretty damned inexpensive, too. Worth poking around on the site to see what they have aside from the prefabbed kits!

Cheers
Trev
 
All of the stones I am using for fine work are from Brownell's. Have the set of 3 ceramic 1/2 x 1/2 x6" stones and they are great for most tasks... I also have a pair of 2 x 4 x 3/16 india and arkansas that are used the the Power Custom hammer and sear jig... I also find them usefull as the edges are angle cut (aprrox 30deg) for other tasks when you need to get into a tight corner, hammer hooks for example....

I still would like to get an assortment of triangular, round and half round india stone though...

I have used the 3M sticky back paper with sucess after attaching it to pieces of formed spring steel for specific jobs, think "custom" shaped files. I have used this for polishing the bolt ways in 1892/94 receivers for example... I tend to agree that it could round edges in some instances, but it is still a usefull tool to have around...
 
If your interested in polish precision parts....speak to a mold maker!

Check out the websites from these companies, Norton abrasives, Gesswein, Engis.

If you are just polishing sears and other small faces, a thin strip of 1200 wet or dry on a hardwood lapping stick (supplied by Engis) works great.

JMTC
 
trevj said:
Take a look at these guys.

http://www.borideabrasives.com/product.php?prod=2776

I got a couple of their deburring stones at a machine tool show a while back, and they have proven to be pretty handy. Finally found one that still had the name readable on it.

They have stones that they are using on high Rockwell hardness mold and die steels, and the sticks are available in a lot of shapes, sizes, and grits.

They are pretty damned inexpensive, too. Worth poking around on the site to see what they have aside from the prefabbed kits!

Cheers
Trev
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Hi Trev,
Thanks for the link to this site. I made up a list of a few of their sticks to order & try out. I see their grit selection is wide, so I'll get a range. Some people don't like synthetics, but I have no problem with "manufactured" abrasives & stones in the different varieties.

If I don't use the Bonde sticks for trigger work, they'll still be useful for making HSS lathe tools. Production tools are all carbides, but as a hobbyist it's handy to profile a cutter for a specific job - my lathe is just a small hobby p.o.s.

I found some Norton 240 grit triangular 1/4" x 5" stones at a local industrial supply. Completely by accident - I was looking for something else. There were three sticks - bought them all. 240 is good for roughing. Apparently these were "leftovers" - for a buck apiece I couldn't argue.

Thanks again,
FB
 
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shooter64 said:
If your interested in polish precision parts....speak to a mold maker!

Check out the websites from these companies, Norton abrasives, Gesswein, Engis.

If you are just polishing sears and other small faces, a thin strip of 1200 wet or dry on a hardwood lapping stick (supplied by Engis) works great.

JMTC
Click to expand...

That is good advice - a mold maker needs that kind of precision alright. I'll check those out.

Thanks for the suggestion,
FB
 
ckid said:
All of the stones I am using for fine work are from Brownell's. Have the set of 3 ceramic 1/2 x 1/2 x6" stones and they are great for most tasks... I also have a pair of 2 x 4 x 3/16 india and arkansas that are used the the Power Custom hammer and sear jig... I also find them usefull as the edges are angle cut (aprrox 30deg) for other tasks when you need to get into a tight corner, hammer hooks for example....

I still would like to get an assortment of triangular, round and half round india stone though...

I have used the 3M sticky back paper with sucess after attaching it to pieces of formed spring steel for specific jobs, think "custom" shaped files. I have used this for polishing the bolt ways in 1892/94 receivers for example... I tend to agree that it could round edges in some instances, but it is still a usefull tool to have around...
Click to expand...

I got in touch with Brownells regarding the relative hardness of their India and Arkansas stones - apparently there's "soft" Arkansas and "hard" Arkansas. They do make up sets with several different cross-section profiles in the same stone type.

They also recommended the ceramics for starting out. They are a bit short of India and Arkansas stock at the moment, but I would like to build up a set with different cross-sections, as well as medium and fine grits.

All that will take is time and money, LOL.
 
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