Smith and Wesson model 41 Issues

Kondor

Kondor

CGN Regular
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Barrie Area 705
I've done some searching and cannot seem to find this particular issue I'm having anywhere else, maybe someone has heard of it or experienced it themselves, trying to see if it's something minor I can fix before taking to a gun smith
It's a Model 41 from the early 1960's. 7inch barrel with compensator

The issue is that when a round is fired it cycles and loads the next round fine however when it loads the second round the firing pin drops as it does, It's not enough to fire the round one round I used as a second 3 times and had 3 light primer strikes before putting it as the first and firing no problem. Very light strikes but doing so the gun now has a live round in the chamber and is not cocked, I am unsure why it is firing, it is very clean it was bought second hand from a gentleman who claimed to not have fired it in 30 or more years after only shooting under 200 rounds total. Anyone have any suggestions to see if i can figure this out ? searched the forums here and google to no avail and everyone ive spoke to is stumped on that one. any advice or thoughts are appreciated! Cheers
 
Kondor said:
I've done some searching and cannot seem to find this particular issue I'm having anywhere else, maybe someone has heard of it or experienced it themselves, trying to see if it's something minor I can fix before taking to a gun smith
It's a Model 41 from the early 1960's. 7inch barrel with compensator

The issue is that when a round is fired it cycles and loads the next round fine however when it loads the second round the firing pin drops as it does, It's not enough to fire the round one round I used as a second 3 times and had 3 light primer strikes before putting it as the first and firing no problem. Very light strikes but doing so the gun now has a live round in the chamber and is not cocked, I am unsure why it is firing, it is very clean it was bought second hand from a gentleman who claimed to not have fired it in 30 or more years after only shooting under 200 rounds total. Anyone have any suggestions to see if i can figure this out ? searched the forums here and google to no avail and everyone ive spoke to is stumped on that one. any advice or thoughts are appreciated! Cheers
Click to expand...

Crud under the pin or dry fired TOO much, imho. 30 years is a long f'n time and rust never sleeps!
 
Always good to do as detailed and thorough cleaning as possible on a "new to you" used gun. You can look for issues, hopefully prevent ones like this or just generally get an idea of how it works and fits together. With luck a cleaning will sort this for you.

Main reason I'm replying is to let you know to be careful with the model 41. There's a couple small springs that might want to escape or cause trouble. One that got me is a tiny flat or v spring. Do some research before diving in too far.

Congrats. Those are a great pistol!
 
vagrantviking said:
Always good to do as detailed and thorough cleaning as possible on a "new to you" used gun. You can look for issues, hopefully prevent ones like this or just generally get an idea of how it works and fits together. With luck a cleaning will sort this for you.

Main reason I'm replying is to let you know to be careful with the model 41. There's a couple small springs that might want to escape or cause trouble. One that got me is a tiny flat or v spring. Do some research before diving in too far.

Congrats. Those are a great pistol!
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth!
 
Sounds like the sear is letting go? The hammer is dropping when the slide goes forward?????
trigger set too light, this can happen.
Crap in the hammer , sear?
Home brew gunsmithing trying to get hair trigger?, it happens.
sear damaged?
A fellow brought in a 22 MCM one time, slide drop, gun fired.
There was so much crap in that gun that the sear could not find the hammer notch.
Asked him when he cleaned it, looks at me funny and said cleaned?????? Some people should stick to clubs.
This will not be the case here , if it looks clean.
Light strikes can be a gummed up firing pin, or a gummy chamber.
BTW don't take things apart , till you know where all the little bits go, and what they do.
 
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A few questions
If you #### it manually by pulling the slide fully to the rear does it #### the hammer every time?
Has it been fired with a wide variety of ammo? Have you tried hot rounds like CCI Mini-mags?
If it is loaded with a partially filled mag (3 or 4 rounds instead of 10)does the problem go away?

Early 41's like yours do not have an inertial firing pin. So they cannot be damaged by dry firing as the pin doesn't go far enough forward to hit the breech. A very common problem is that the recoil spring is too strong or the ammo too weak so the slide goes far enough back to pick up the next round but not quite enough for the sear to catch the hammer. The problem is worse with the first round as there is maximum pressure on the slide fr4om the fully loaded mag which slows slide velocity.

41's are notorious for being ammo fussy for all these reasons. This is why Wolff sells recoil spring calibration packs and why some work best with a different weight spring.

Do not despair. These early 41's are a true joy to shoot. They often need a good cleaning and get gummed up but they are well made and not prone to parts breaking. It may need some trouble shooting now but is fixable.

Report back after soaking and cleaning it.
Try a wide variety of ammo esp CCI standard velocity, some mini mags some Lapua or SK, stay away from all the crap ammo don't even bother with it.
Clean the mag and try loading only 5 rounds.
Very firm grip, these guns will punish limp wristing
Rimfire Central is a good forum to also get trouble shooting info from

My all original 1957 shoots a couple of thousand rounds a year. Hopefully my grandkids will be shooting it
 
Brownells or Numrich should have a good exploded view of the 41 to aid in disassembly and reassembly, also YouTube should have a video as well.
I’m agreeing with the thorough cleaning and the possibility of a misplaced spring.
Really thinking it’s dirt or a part not placed properly, I’ve experienced these issues in the past with other firearms, small brass flake, excess crud or really old and hard lube.
Starting with cleaning and ensuring all the pieces are where they should be as well nothing is broken or worn parts, aids in solving malfunctions.
Great, no, excellent pistol!!

https://www.brownells.com/schematics/smith-wesson-/41-sid667.aspx
https://www.smith-wesson.com/sites/...S&W_Model_41_Pistol_Manual_07-15-2014 (1).pdf
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/smith-wesson/auto-pistols-sw/41-sw?page=2
Lots of little pieces, just like an HK P7M8 if you ever take one of those apart!
Hope this info helps!!
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As Heddok Said, Is the hammer cocking when the slide cycles ?
I don't quite understand your first post, the firing pin, don't drop.
The slide cycles back, and the hammer is held cocked by the sear, trigger is pulled and hammer hits the firing pin.
So after you fire the first round, which works O.K., second shot, when you pull the trigger, does it go click and hammer falls?
If not, than the slide maybe not coming back enough to #### the hammer.
If that is the case, clean and oil the slide, slide spring, main spring could be a heavy one for hot ammo, if this is the case try some mini mags ( god I hate to saw that)
all the firing pin does is sit and wait for the hammer to hit it.
These are not a striker fired gun, after reading your original post, I am thinking that you may thinking this?????
I have/had a better manual for these , than the above picture, would have to did thou the filing cabinet to see.
 
the hammer is not staying cocked when the slide cycles.

After a round is fired it chambers another round and without touching the trigger if i pull the round out of the chamber there is a primer strike on it.
The gun cycles good using CCI standard and mini Mags it just will not fire a second shot without manually cocking the slide again

Will report back after a really good cleaning of the gun.

Appreicate all the advice hopefully cleaning and making sure parts are in the correct place is a good step!
 
marshall said:
As Heddok Said, Is the hammer cocking when the slide cycles ?
I don't quite understand your first post, the firing pin, don't drop.
The slide cycles back, and the hammer is held cocked by the sear, trigger is pulled and hammer hits the firing pin.
So after you fire the first round, which works O.K., second shot, when you pull the trigger, does it go click and hammer falls?
If not, than the slide maybe not coming back enough to #### the hammer.
If that is the case, clean and oil the slide, slide spring, main spring could be a heavy one for hot ammo, if this is the case try some mini mags ( god I hate to saw that)
all the firing pin does is sit and wait for the hammer to hit it.
These are not a striker fired gun, after reading your original post, I am thinking that you may thinking this?????
I have/had a better manual for these , than the above picture, would have to did thou the filing cabinet to see.
Click to expand...

sorry for the confusion, it seems the sear must be worn as it is not holding the hammer back after it fires but does before it is fired.

sadly i cannot find a video to dissaemble the trigger and firing mechanism only the slide and firing pin / extractor which i've now thoroughly cleaned and need to test again but believe the sear may be the issue after anyother CGNer pm'd me with a similar issue
 
Sorry to break in on this thread, but I have just purchased a 1967 Model 41 in beautiful shape with the external cocking indicator,

Can I dry fire this safely, without any harm to the pistol?
 
I am not sure as I am not up on the different dates on these, I do not like dry firing any 22 target gun, but use a snap cap and no worries.
BTW those small drywall anchors that come with towel hangers and such work if you shorten them up a bit.
Kondor
If you get the hammer and sear out, feel along the edge for chips, crud, rough spots.
Also when you pull the slide back and #### it by hand does it hold #### ever time?
If so, I would bet the slide is not recoiling far enough for the sear to check the hammer.
Should not make any difference if you pull the slide back or the fired shell does that, same operation.
If that is the case, main slide spring could be too heavy , or twisted up., slide binding? Light oil, not grease on the slide/frame.
SQUAREHEAD1 said:
Sorry to break in on this thread, but I have just purchased a 1967 Model 41 in beautiful shape with the external cocking indicator,

Can I dry fire this safely, without any harm to the pistol?
Click to expand...
 
SQUAREHEAD1 said:
Sorry to break in on this thread, but I have just purchased a 1967 Model 41 in beautiful shape with the external cocking indicator,

Can I dry fire this safely, without any harm to the pistol?
Click to expand...


Drywall anchors...
 
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Pull the barrel and slide off , you should be able to see if the sear locks the hammer back.
Try using it as a single shot , one round at a time and see what happens, if it works every thine when you pull the slide back and release it, Don't ease it ahead, than sounds like the hammer . sear are O.K. Spring problem maybe. I don't have anything for these . Wolf gun springs in US. has spring kits.
 
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