Smith to convert repro revolver to use cartridges?

[CanFire]

I would like to pick up a repro 1851 Navy Revolver (Pietta from Marstar) and have it converted to use cartridges instead of cap & ball. Can anyone recommend a gunsmith?

TIA

 

[OneBarfly]

There are "drop-in" conversion kits available in the US. Maybe they might have a Canadian rep. Good opportunity for someone. :wink:
http://www.randdgunshop.com/catalog.php?category=Drop In Cylinders

 

[1851 Navy]

The R&D conversion kit is only $25 more than the drop-in cylinder and only requires a dremel and some patience to install. That would be my choice, if I had the cash. I'm sure its safe to install a loaded drop-in cylinder into an open top Colt if you keep an empty chamber under the hammer, but I'm still not fond of the idea.

 

[GrantR]

NOTE: Do not consider a conversion to cartridge-firing in any brass-framed open top revolver - I know that the makers of the conversion systems referred to above certainly warn against it. So be sure you go with one of the steel-framed "Yank" models - and, even if only used in its original cap & ball configuration, it will stand up better to ongoing use.

 

[Claven2]

Realistically, it would be cheaper to get a cartridge conversion replica from Uberti through Shooter's Choice than to buy a Marstar Pietta AND the R&D Kit. I'm trying to convince John & Co. to start carrying the R&D cylinders (not a fan of the Kirst) because they are a great choice if you wnt to be able to do both BP and Cartridge, but if you want only cartridge just get the purpose built replica.

http://www.shooterschoice.com/uberti/Uberti.htm

 

[tiriaq]

There is an outfit in the US that sells plans to convert C&B revolvers to cartridge. While certainly possible, it would not be cost effective to pay a 'smith to do the conversion.

 

[sunray]

Whatever you do, remember that the frames are made for BP. Even when this was originally done in the late 19th Century, the cartridges used BP too. You won't get a handgun capable of shooting hot loads by changing the cylinder.

 

[JohnC]

www.brownells.com sells conversion cylinders ($300 US ramge). import & export certificates will be required

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/st...&title=REVOLVER+CARTRIDGE+CONVERSION+CYLINDER

 

[CanFire]

Wow. Thanks for all the great information guys. I love the looks of the Colt 1851 and I know nothing about black powder other than it requires a lot more care & attention than smokeless powder so that's why I'm looking at a conversion.

I didn't realize there were drop in conversions - great!

I didn't realize I needed a steel framed model - thanks!

Claven2: I couldn't find a cartridge-only repro of an 1851 at Shooter's Choice; just the black powder Uberti.

 

[GrantR]

... I couldn't find a cartridge-only repro of an 1851 at Shooter's Choice; just the black powder Uberti.

CanFire: on the sidepanel menu on the Shooter's Coice website page which Claven2's link takes you to, under "Conversion Handguns" click on "Richard Mason" (which is a typo, as it should be "Richards-Mason") - they don't show any pictures of one, unfortunately, but the available models and prices are listed. The other option for "that look" is the "1871-72 Open Top" - I am thinking of picking up one of those in .45 Colt (which is the caliber I do all my Cowboy Action Shooting with ...

However, if you really like the look of the 1851 Navy, you'd likely want to stick with a Richards-Mason conversion - an added advantage is that to keep it to the original .36 caliber (so to speak) you can get it chambered in .38 Long Colt ( the original chambering) or .38 Special (much more readily available...)

Here is a picture of a Richards-Mason conversion pirated from the Cimmaron Firearms website (their guns are Uberti-made) -

This picture is of a round-barelled version - assuming that you want a the traditional octagonal barrel of the 1851, I see that Shooter's Choice list both octagonal and round barrel versions ....

(Think I asked on a previous post whether we have met - don't think you responded ....)

 

[CanFire]

(Think I asked on a previous post whether we have met - don't think you responded ....)

LOL - you must be carrying on a similar conversation in another thread or on another board Grant. We have met - you were kind enough to volunteer your time, firearms, and ammunition towards that team-building shoot I arranged a couple of months ago! Your question is kind of ironic since it was by meeting you that I got started along this road of pursuing my restricted license and scheming for an 1851 revolver!

I must be looking in the wrong spot...all I see under the Richards-Mason conversion revolvers webpage at Shooter's Choice is the 1871 model. The 1871 open-top's (which are on a separate page) are a close match, but if there is an 1851 option I'd like to find it!

(Grant - if you ever want company at the range, drop me a PM!)

 

[BEARMAN]

On the SHOOTER'S CHOICE site look at, in the 1871 conversion price list " army grip" and " navy grip", the navy grip is probably the style you are looking for.

 

[GrantR]

... LOL - you must be carrying on a similar conversation in another thread or on another board Grant. We have met ...

DOH!!!! :roll:
Sorry about that , Dean! (Yes, there is another fellow - "dragoon7214" - posting on CGN who shows his location as Medicine Hat. That's who I had in mind when I had that little brainfade ....)

Under the "Conversion Revolvers" heading, on that left-side menu at Shooters Choice, there are actually two links: the "Richard Mason" one, and also "1871-72 Open Top" ... They are so close together they look like a single listing, but clicking on each will take you to a different page. The Richards-Mason Conversion page has no photo displayed, which could be throwing you, but they list both "octagonal barrel" versions (the upper ones) and "round barrel" versions (which is the kind that photo from Cimmaron shows. )

If you want something which looks pretty well like an 1851 Navy, but is chambered for cartridges, keep in mind that none of the full conversion-type revolvers being reproduced will retain a loading lever like a true 1851 Navy. Rather, as with the original conversions, an ejector rod and housing were substituted .... I wonder if Shooter's Choice could provide you with a photo of n octagon-barreled M-R conversion, so you could compare its looks to a basic 1851 Navy ....

AHA! I did a search and located this picture of a Cimmaron-Uberti Richards-Mason 1851 conversion, with octagon barrel, which happens to be chambered in .38 Special, and is currently offered on GunsAmerica:

Here's a link to the listing:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976623846.htm

With the exception of the "ivory" grips, an octagon-barreled R-M conversion offered by Shooter's Choice should look pretty much like that.

Yes, we'll have to get out to the range - should fire up my 1851 Navy for you to try!

 

[CanFire]

I like the looks of the loading lever.
Didn't you say in another thread that you prefer the all steel look of the London model Grant? If so, I'd have to agree. The brass bit's are OK, but between these two I'd have to go with the London - It just looks period-correct. (yeah, I know - period-correct would mean running blackpowder too. Don't worry. I can't afford an original and even if I could, I would leave it original)

 

[GrantR]

I like the looks of the loading lever.
Didn't you say in another thread that you prefer the all steel look of the London model Grant? If so, I'd have to agree.

Dean:

Yes, I personally prefer the looks of the "all steel" London Navy - and also am partial to that model because it was Canada's first official military handgun. Sounds like you ought to get a decent London Model 1851 to use in original cap & ball configuration, and you can look into getting one of the "drop in" cartridge conversions later on - at least with those you can retain the loading lever in place, since you like that look .... (There are also replacement "cut down" cylinder pins available to use with these conversion cylinders, to permit a switch to the "leverless" look ...)

FWIW, I can provide a bit of further news about what is currently available at Shooter's Choice, in the Cartridge Conversion models. As I mentioned, I was enquiring about availability of an "Open Top" in .45 Colt, and received an e-mail reply from them today, which I'll quote in its entirety:

Yes, the pricing on our website is current. However, the Open
Tops in .45 Colt have been on order for about 2 years now, and we still
have not received any. We get ocassional shipments of .38 Special and
.45 Schofield, but currently only have .38 Specials in stock. Sorry I
cannot be of more help.

Well - so much for my hope of being able to acquire an Open Top in .45 Colt any time soon ... "Plan B" has been to write back and see if they have any Richards-Mason conversions in .45 Schofield - a cartridge which I can load with my existing dies using reduced-length .45 Colt brass. I have also even asked about my "Plan C" - which would be to consider breaking down and getting something chambered in .38 Special - in that case, my definite preference would be an octagon-barreled Richards-Mason conversion, which would look best as a "companion piece" for my 1851 Navy C&B. (Since I was penning a reply, I also threw in an enquiry about availability of a London Model 1851 Navy - will let you know what they say.)

On the topic of brass versus steel triggerguard and gripstraps - I am reminded of what I did with my "brace" of Model 1875 Remington revolver repros, which are both Uberti-made, but quite a bit different in age. One of them had a blued steel triggerguard, but the triggerguard on the other is brass (gripstraps on both are steel.) Since I prefer the steel look (and since original Remington 1875's had steel triggerguards) I treated the brass guard with "Brass Black" to standardize the appearance of the pair. It actually works fairly well, though it does tend to wear through a bit with continued use. In that case, however, you can just give it another treatment ....

To show you what I mean, here is a picture of my pair of 1875's. There was already some wear on my blackening treatment of the brass triggerguard whenthis photo was taken, but I can't tell which one is which, in the picture ...

So that actually suggests another option you might consider to get the "London Model" look, if it turns out that only the standard brass triggerguard models are readily available. (If I do end up having to go with my "Plan C", I would likely do that with the brass bits on that revolver ...)

 

[CanFire]

I just rented and watched The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly so I could refresh my memory. The movie is supposed to be occuring near the end of the civil war. Here's Clint loading his Colt Navy:

Those are some great looking 1875's Grant! Also, how come all of your photo's look like studio prints? As a young man did you work your way through university as a professional photographer? :mrgreen:

 

[1851 Navy]

Canfire, I share your passion for Eastwood's "spaghetti western" conversion model. While they're not 100% screen accurate, the Kirst and R&D conversions are the closest you can get without spending a ton of cash. THe cylinders themselves are fairly inexpensive, and they're easy enough to install. The real problem with this and any of the .36 navy conversions lies in the bore diameter. Since you're trying to fire .357 bullets down a .375 barrel you have to either:

a) use heel-based bullets (hard to come by, and a pain to load)
b) use hollow based wadcutters
c) use special hollow based round nose, cast from a special Rapine mould.
d) line the bore to .357

Of these, I like the .357 lined bore the best, since it would allow you to use whatever style of bullet you want to. But then you have to factor in the cost of lining the bore, plus an additional unmodified barrel if you want to keep shooting percussion. The Rapine hollow based bullets are a close second, but I'm not sure if you can even get the mould anymore. Its because of these reasons that I've been leaning towards the Uberti Richards Mason conversion. It might not be 100% authentic, but it'll chamber regular .38 special and it has the correct bore diameter.

 

[CanFire]

So, my shopping list looks like:
- Uberti 1851 Navy London from Shooter's Choice... $395
-or- Pietta 1851 Yank Navy from Marstars [$269]
- CK1851-UL conversion cylinder from P&D... $225 USD
- Barrel lined to .357 from P&D.... $60 USD

Dang! It's not only expensive, but I have to deal with customs too!

Maybe I should try socking money away until I have enough saved to buy the revolver and do the conversion all in one step instead of buying pieces over time. Hopefully while I am saving, a Canadian distributor for the conversion parts & service will appear or someone will come out with an out-of-the-box "spaghetti" western repro.

Why does everything have to get complicated?

 

[ENERGYBOSS]

I have to deal with customs too!

Thats Kanada Kustoms.....