Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
For those that are running SK LRM, these 2 might be worth a look.
Think of Long Range as a faster CenterX.... Super Long Range as a faster Midas+
Jerry
Sneak Peak at Lapua LR and SLR ammo
- Thread starter Mystic Precision
- Start date
For those that are running SK LRM, these 2 might be worth a look.
Think of Long Range as a faster CenterX.... Super Long Range as a faster Midas+
Jerry
- Location
- Fraser Valley, B.C.
Looks like interesting stuff.
Potentially going to be trying some SK LRM in the T1X soon as it seems to be more readily avaliable to me locally.
Cheers,
B
Potentially going to be trying some SK LRM in the T1X soon as it seems to be more readily avaliable to me locally.
Cheers,
B
I suspect about $24 for the Long Range and $32 for the Super Long Range - or in that vicinity.
Perhaps this Eagleye Shooting video on these new ammos won the race to be first video. The test itself, with no more than one box from one lot of each, shouldn't be taken as any more than one inconclusive test.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It's not meant to be "better".... just faster. At least, that is all the conclusion this should provide.
This is about barrel compatibility options.
Jerry
PS. I smile when some just want to overcomplicate everything...
I get that he's using a 24" barrel, but it doesn't seem much faster either. I have tested several lots of Midas+ that ran averages of 1090+ in a 20" barrel.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I think Lapua is going to make a 2 speed lineup of ammo going forward. This LR/SLR stuff is in the 'fast' lane.... CX/Midas+ will be in the 'slow'.
Time will tell if it becomes popular.... but a lot of shooters do like SK LRM so might take off.
Jerry
It will be exactly as Glenn always reminds us all. LOT NUMBERS. I was lucky and had two cases of SK LRM that was extremely accurate in my Kidd gun but I like to shoot, so it ran out. The next batches I tried were dismal in comparison. It was interesting to notice, while using the Magnetospeed the velocities between the semi with SK LRM and my Vudoo with the different Lapua flavours, the velocities ended up being very close and I mean very close in averages. Reminder Barrel quality and LOT NUMBERS= Tight groups
Keep in mind that barrel length doesn't necessarily play a predominant role in the MV of the .22LR ammo going through it. The condition and characteristics of the bore are usually as, or more, important.
For example, one of two barrels that are exactly the same length and made by the same manufacturer may be faster or slower than the other.
In general, the longer barrels are going to have a slower MV.
Anyone that has been shooting for more than a week knows that individual barrels may vary.
For readers in general, the first thing to understand is that regardless of barrel length, no one who's been shooting without using a chronograph can know the MV of the ammo being used -- even if he's been shooting for much, much more than a week.
Many newer shooters read stuff on forums that is oversimplified and over generalized. An example is that a long barrel will have slower MV's than a shorter barrel. Will a 22" barrel be slower than a 20"barrel? Is it that simple? No.
Take for example the comparison reported in June 25, 2020 in the article "How Does Barrel Length Affect Accuracy and Ballistics" in Gun Digest. (For details see https://gundigest.com/article/how-does-barrel-length-affect-accuracy-and-ballistics).
It shows no consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity. Just focussing on the three CZ barrels, in some cases the shortest barrel (16.5") produced the highest MVs, in others it was the longest (24") and in others still it was the 20.5" barrel. In some cases the MV differences were so close as to be utterly meaningless.
It must be noted that if someone else did this same test, even with only the three different CZ barrel lengths, he would probably get different results because he would not only have different barrels but also different ammo (even if it has the same name on the box). But what would remain the same is that there would be no consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity.
No doubt many longer barrels will produce slower MVs than shorter barrels. At the same time many will not.
For readers in general, the first thing to understand is that regardless of barrel length, no one who's been shooting without using a chronograph can know the MV of the ammo being used -- even if he's been shooting for much, much more than a week.
Many newer shooters read stuff on forums that is oversimplified and over generalized. An example is that a long barrel will have slower MV's than a shorter barrel. Will a 22" barrel be slower than a 20"barrel? Is it that simple? No.
Take for example the comparison reported in June 25, 2020 in the article "How Does Barrel Length Affect Accuracy and Ballistics" in Gun Digest. (For details see https://gundigest.com/article/how-does-barrel-length-affect-accuracy-and-ballistics).
It shows no consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity. Just focussing on the three CZ barrels, in some cases the shortest barrel (16.5") produced the highest MVs, in others it was the longest (24") and in others still it was the 20.5" barrel. In some cases the MV differences were so close as to be utterly meaningless.
It must be noted that if someone else did this same test, even with only the three different CZ barrel lengths, he would probably get different results because he would not only have different barrels but also different ammo (even if it has the same name on the box). But what would remain the same is that there would be no consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity.
No doubt many longer barrels will produce slower MVs than shorter barrels. At the same time many will not.
I don't see any ammo in that list that anyone would consider using to shoot any sort of a match. I have chronographed some of those ammos myself and gotten extreme spreads of 125 fps and more. That alone makes the reported variability in the muzzle velocities of the different lengths of barrels useless.
Regurgitating nonsensical rhetoric and using garbage data to try and prove a point that has already been disproven 1,000 times over, is futile.
In general, longer barrels using 22LR ammo, result in lower muzzle velocities. Notice, I repeated, in general, once again. Obviously, there may be some exceptions to every rule, however, they are not common. Or they would not be called exceptions.
In any event, the topic of this thread is Lapua Long Range and Super Long Range and the attached video, not the vagaries of generic 22LR ammos and barrels.
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The trouble begins when someone simply repeats what he reads on the internet and accepts it as correct because it gets repeated so often. When there is contrary evidence to generalizations that are widely circulated it's necessary to be careful about adhering too rigidly to them.
To be sure, the chart shown above is not conclusive. But it's not meant to be. Its contents illustrate the point that there isn't a consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity.
Your objection above is that the ammo in the chart isn't match type ammo, that some of them may have wider ES than many match ammos. In other words, these HV ammos don't count when it comes to average MVs and barrel length.
Your view therefore must mean that average MVs of HV ammos such as those in the chart somehow make them immune to barrel length factors. Put another way, unlike average MVs for match ammos, average MVs of these HV ammos are not a product of barrel length.
Averages are averages, regardless of whether the ammo is match or high velocity.
No doubt many longer barrels will produce slower MVs than shorter barrels. At the same time many will not.
Nonsense. If you are so sure - then prove it. Take your match rifle with the match ammo that you are currently using and chronograph the muzzle velocity. Then cut the barrel an inch at a time and chronograph each time. We await the results.
While I won't follow your foolish suggestion, it's been done by others (more about this below).
In your own words your contention is "In general, longer barrels using 22LR ammo, result in lower muzzle velocities. Notice, I repeated, in general, once again. Obviously, there may be some exceptions to every rule, however, they are not common. Or they would not be called exceptions."
You dismissed the results shown in the example posted above because they ran contrary to your views. They were an exception. How many exceptions to the rule should be accepted before it's no longer a rule?
In the world of popular, if mistaken, thinking it's "the exception that proves the rule". That's convenient, isn't it? In the realm of fact and science, however, convenience doesn't matter. Nobel physics winner Richard Feynman said "The exception proves that the rule is wrong. If there is an exception to any rule, and if it can be proved by observation, that rule is wrong."
As noted above, tests like the one you've suggested I do have already been done.
Many readers will be familiar with the often-cited study comparing .22LR ammo performance found here https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/
The same shooter who produced that comparison also did another less often-cited test in 2018 on rimfire MV vs. barrel length. He took a Brno rifle and chronographed ten different varieites of .22LR ammo. He then cut off the barrel an inch at a time and repeated the chronograph testing. By the time he was finished, he had reduced the original Brno barrel from 24.75" down to 15.75" and in other increments down to 10". All together, he had 14 different lengths that were tested over a chronograph with ten different ammos.
See http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8711043/m/4871072832/p/2 The posts on this thread aren't numbered. See the one posted on 05 March 2018 at 06:53
The conclusion of this MV vs. barrel length test, posted 05 March 2018 12:21, is exceptionally simple.
"Amazing is in it? With center fire each inch means something, here [with .22LR] not so much."
Below are the results, which I've formated with the match ammo shown in the top row. Readers are invited to see for themselves that there isn't a consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity.
While I won't follow your foolish suggestion, it's been done by others (more about this below).
In your own words your contention is "In general, longer barrels using 22LR ammo, result in lower muzzle velocities. Notice, I repeated, in general, once again. Obviously, there may be some exceptions to every rule, however, they are not common. Or they would not be called exceptions."
You dismissed the results shown in the example posted above because they ran contrary to your views. They were an exception. How many exceptions to the rule should be accepted before it's no longer a rule?
In the world of popular, if mistaken, thinking it's "the exception that proves the rule". That's convenient, isn't it? In the realm of fact and science, however, convenience doesn't matter. Nobel physics winner Richard Feynman said "The exception proves that the rule is wrong. If there is an exception to any rule, and if it can be proved by observation, that rule is wrong."
As noted above, tests like the one you've suggested I do have already been done.
Many readers will be familiar with the often-cited study comparing .22LR ammo performance found here https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/
The same shooter who produced that comparison also did another less often-cited test in 2018 on rimfire MV vs. barrel length. He took a Brno rifle and chronographed ten different varieites of .22LR ammo. He then cut off the barrel an inch at a time and repeated the chronograph testing. By the time he was finished, he had reduced the original Brno barrel from 24.75" down to 15.75" and in other increments down to 10". All together, he had 14 different lengths that were tested over a chronograph with ten different ammos.
See http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8711043/m/4871072832/p/2 The posts on this thread aren't numbered. See the one posted on 05 March 2018 at 06:53
The conclusion of this MV vs. barrel length test, posted 05 March 2018 12:21, is exceptionally simple.
"Amazing is in it? With center fire each inch means something, here [with .22LR] not so much."
Below are the results, which I've formated with the match ammo shown in the top row. Readers are invited to see for themselves that there isn't a consistent relationship between barrel length and ammo velocity.
As you have indicated the top row is testing of match ammo. In every instance, the muzzle velocity is greater at 18.75" than at 24.75".
Of the 10 ammos test, fully 8 of the ammos have a greater muzzle velocity at 18.75" than at 24.75".
In general, longer barrels using 22LR ammo, result in lower muzzle velocities.
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