SNIDER and MARTINI HENRY AMMUNITION

katazone

katazone

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Hi everyone,

Just added 2 new beautiful pieces to my collection. A 1863 Snider and a 1879 Martini Henry MkIII both in amazing condition and both shooters.
The catch is that I have limited ammunition and am not in a position to make or reload for them.
I'm looking for any information on where and how to acquire some. As gun shows are currently extinct, this pretty much only leaves one option: An enthusiast willing to sell me some and share their knowledge and bring me into the club.

There is a second approach which I am not so comfortable with. The 477-450 to 45 Colt adapters from: The Shooter's Box

https://www.theshootersbox.com/577450-Martin-Henry-to-45-Colt-Caliber-Adapter--Chamber-Reducer--Stainless_p_35370.html

I have heard mixed reviews on adapters, but then again all the material on them are dated and from home made versions. This particular one has been made and tested on a 1875 MkII.

I welcome feedback and am hoping someone will be able to help out a newb in the black powder world. :redface::d

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Re. cartridge adapters, about 40 years years ago I used adapters from Ace in Anchorage, AK to shoot 45 Colt and 45/70 out of my Mk. IV Martini.
I had to remove a slight amount of metal from the shoulders of both to get them to chamber, but it only took a few minutes with a fine file for each.
The 45 Colt adapter functioned fine, and the fired brass pushed out of it without much trouble using a length of wooden dowel.
The 45/70 was a real p.i.t.a. as the fired brass extended slightly beyond the mouth of that particular adapter, and after expanding had to be driven out with quite a bit of force applied to the dowel via a rubber mallet.
Neither adapter gave any amount of reasonable accuracy as the 45 Colt and 45/70 bullets were way undersized for the rifle's bore, and the adapters wouldn't accept a cartridge loaded with a bullet diameter more suited to bore size.
Regardless, they did go bang and allowed the old rifle to continue to shoot.

Nice pair of rifles you have there.
 
I have made a couple of adapters for a Martini but unless they are a tight fit in the chamber, the neck area of the chamber will expand with the first shot and that means the fired 45-70 case will have an expanded neck area and be difficult to remove. I did make an adapter for a 45-70 shortened so that it did not extend beyond the shoulder of the adapter --- the fired shells extracted easily but I don't recall the accuracy and basically it does not address the major difference in bullet diameter between .458 and the .470 is Martini bore

cheers mooncoon
 
Katazone: You should join British Militaria Forums. There is a large amount of info available there on loading for Snider and Martini. I would say that if you want to shoot these much you are going to have to reload. For accuracy the current favored approach with the Snider is to obtain sized brass from X-Ring and fireform it in your rifle using bullets of around .575". After that you can (generally) just thumb in .60" solids (again X-Ring mold) and, with the right lube, get good accuracy. It's a fairly long-term commitment to get accurate results with either rifle and best to take the plunge and start with assembling loading equipment and molds.

milsurpo
 
milsurpo said:
Katazone: You should join British Militaria Forums. There is a large amount of info available there on loading for Snider and Martini. I would say that if you want to shoot these much you are going to have to reload. For accuracy the current favored approach with the Snider is to obtain sized brass from X-Ring and fireform it in your rifle using bullets of around .575". After that you can (generally) just thumb in .60" solids (again X-Ring mold) and, with the right lube, get good accuracy. It's a fairly long-term commitment to get accurate results with either rifle and best to take the plunge and start with assembling loading equipment and molds.
milsurpo
Click to expand...

Watch Rob on Youtube - britishmuzzeloaders - he has a two-part movie about reloading using Martyn's stuff. Many of us over here in UK who shoot the Snider use his moulds and accessories. I'm still shooting my NDFS cases obtained in the later '80s for my Sniders. I second milsurpo's recommendation of British Militaria forums - loading either of these calibres is NOT for the faint-hearted, or the poor. The upside is that cases, particularly those from Bertram Brass, last almost forever...

Although I have a set of Snider dies, I don't have the large-thread press needed, and in any case, as noted above, the bullet thumbs into the case. A shell holder is all I actually use - the press can do the job of inserting new primers.
 
tacfoley said:
Watch Rob on Youtube - britishmuzzeloaders - he has a two-part movie about reloading using Martyn's stuff. Many of us over here in UK who shoot the Snider use his moulds and accessories. I'm still shooting my NDFS cases obtained in the later '80s for my Sniders. I second milsurpo's recommendation of British Militaria forums - loading either of these calibres is NOT for the faint-hearted, or the poor. The upside is that cases, particularly those from Bertram Brass, last almost forever...

Although I have a set of Snider dies, I don't have the large-thread press needed, and in any case, as noted above, the bullet thumbs into the case. A shell holder is all I actually use - the press can do the job of inserting new primers.
Click to expand...

I have been watching a lot if not all the Youtube material available on reloading. Including the latest one of this guy wrapping his own home made paper around the bullet. It's all very fascinating.
I was taking the lazy way out haha, but reloading is part of the hobby I guess when it comes to these old ladies. It's all about my time vs cost (for all modern caliber)
But I think in this case with a little help/coaching and investing in the right tooling, I might actually enjoy the process and the reward at the end of it all. Thanks again.
 
And since we can only get Bertram Brass here in UK, NDFS having been long gone, all of us in my club [ten that I know of] who shot a M-H, and the six of us that shoot Sniders are very happy with Bertram brass for ALL the obsolete calibre rifles we have.
 
tacfoley said:
And since we can only get Bertram Brass here in UK, NDFS having been long gone, all of us in my club [ten that I know of] who shot a M-H, and the six of us that shoot Sniders are very happy with Bertram brass for ALL the obsolete calibre rifles we have.
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on Magtech? or are those not available there.
 
DEZ said:
45 colt is .452 Martini Bores .472 accuracy not good LOL
Click to expand...

It is if you use a larger expander and .475 diameter bullets to load up the 45LC cases.

Actually, the 472 number is a nominal number and there is a plus or minus range in those old bores. Most are slightly on the large side.

The original 577/450 bullets were cast with a hollow base, out of relatively soft lead. They were loaded with a wooden plug jammed into the base of the bullet, which was also patched. This combination allowed the bullets to obturate into the rifling properly for acceptable accuracy.

My Martini, in 577/450 will not chamber cartridges that are .475 diameter. The necks are to big. I can get away with the large bullets when I use a chamber adapter because I've opened it up to handle the larger diameter. Hollow base bullets would fix this issue.

The original cartridge cases were made up in two pieces. A base for the rim and to hold the primer, with a wrapped brass sidewall. I don't know if the case was formed after filling with propellant, like the early 303 Brit cases with Cordite.
 
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