So many questions!!

MrSpit

MrSpit

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Sorry in advance for the long post...... but with this sort of access to knowledge, i cant hold back!!!

Hey all,
So im very new to the shooting sports, in as much as unlike some ppl who are waiting for there PAL/PAL-R to show up in the mail, im currently waiting for my CFSC course to start! (Scheduled for the 1st-2nd Dec Non-restricted and the 8th for restricted)
My first real experience with firearms was just 5 months ago, when my cousin took me to his local range and allowed me to shoot a plethora of guns. They ranged from non restricted rifles to Hand guns, and to some black rifles. The highlight being the hand guns. I believe i shot about 50-60 9mm rounds through his Glock17, and then 30-40 .45 through a beautiful 1911 gun of unknown (to me) manufacturer. Ladies and Gents, it was Love at first shot.......(insert corny rim shot here)
Now needless to say, im VERY excited about the prospects of purchasing my first hand gun, but i do have a number of questions.
I am the sort of person who looks very long and hard at potential purchases of this sort, and tries to anticipate where my head will be 6-12 months down the road. The point to this is to help avoid making a regrettable purchase, and to ensure that my money is well spent. Also im looking to avoid any unanticipated expenses. The down side to this is that i tend to over think (and over type) stuff and utilmately confuse the heck out of my self.
For example, i have been looking at possible storage options. I know i will be buying a handgun, so my initial thought was to buy a small cabinet capable of holding one gun and some ammo (as i am led to believe that this is a viable and legal option) the cabinet i was looking at was the Fort Knox pistol safe that sells for $180 US. the issue is that now im having to consider the fact that i will almost certainly be purchasing another firearm, possibly a (restricted) rifle of some sort.... so now im back to having to buy another cabinet to fit that gun. Having visited my local big box sporting store, i have seen such cabinets as the "First Watch" security gun cabinet (model: HS30120100) selling for $149 CDN .... with no shipping!
So my first question is..... for the budding gun enthusiast on a budget, ... is this sort of cabinet a satisfactory investment. Keep in mind that i simply need something that meets all canadian legal storage requirements for restricted guns and their ammo. I understand that these cabinets are not going to keep thieves from stealing my firearms, and that they are not heat resistant, but im not so worried about that just yet.

Second question goes like this; A local store sells the handgun that i am thinking about getting. Now i understand the process of getting an ATT to transport a gun from my home to the range and vise versa, but what about bringing the gun home after buying it? Im guessing that this is something that needs to be applied for at least a day or two before your actually transporting a gun? Or is it more like something you call about right after finalizing the purchase?

Well looking back over this mash of words...... i see that this is all ready to long a post. So wrapping it up, thanks in advance to everyone who can contribute some helpful info.
All the best!
 
Hello and welcome.

The cabinet you are looking at is NOT a safe. You will have to trigger lock your firearms while they're stored in there, plus lock the cabinet itself. You would then be legal. By purchasing a real safe will give you a little extra security and you would not have to trigger lock them while in storage. There are small safes available, like this one from Home Depot for $259+ship, which to Hamilton puts it at about $280. For $350, you can get into a good size one from Costco which come on sale about twice a year (currently around $600). Lots of threads on Costco safes... just do a search.

Your handgun purchase goes likes this (I've read, don't own one yet);
Show retailer your license
Retailer shows you the gun
You buy and pay for
Retailer calls CFO and begins transfer (2-14 days)
CFO calls you and asks why you want it. Ask about Short Term ATT to bring it home
CFO approves transfer
Retailer calls you to pick it up. Don't forget your STATT paper.

Mail Order;
You enter your PAL number to the site
Order and pay for Firearm
CFO will call you and ask why you're purchasing this gun
Package arrives at Post Office. You must call CFO and get a STATT to transport it from the Post Office to your home (legally).
Bring home and inspect firearm.

To acquire a restricted also 'requires' a range membership in good standing. It's not law, it's policy and you can't really get around it. If you let your membership lapse, the range has a duty to inform the CFO and your LTATT's are cancelled. There's much debate about how legal this is, but it's common practice and until you get into 'the swing of things' you're well advised to follow the established path.
 
The CFO (Ontario at least) doesn't call at least not in my last 3 restricted (hopefully 4 :)).

With mail-order, firearms are shipped to the address listed on your PAL\RPAL. If nobody is at home to sign for the item, they are sent to the nearest Post Office outlet. When you get the pickup slip in your mailbox, you call the CFO and request a STATT to transport the firearm from the Post Office to your home.

In Ontario, you are not required to be a member of a range to purchase/own and store a restricted at your home. You only need to indicate that you are planning on joining XYZ gun club to be approved.
 
I'm under the (purely internet) assumption that your first purchase you're called and the reason is confirmed as target shooting. If I'm mistaken, I do appologize. I did mention this is from research only and not personal experience.

Trinimon is correct about the acquisition of the firearm, but to actually use it you "must be a member" of a range. The range makes the request for the ATT on your behalf.
 
Ya i have herd a bunch of interesting points about the ATT's and some of the legal battles in ontario surrounding them. Canadian reload radio interviewed a guy from ontario who had an Awesome story with a great outcome....episode 129 to be exact!

Thanks a bunch for the advice/info all!
 
Noltz said:
To acquire a restricted also 'requires' a range membership in good standing. It's not law, it's policy and you can't really get around it. If you let your membership lapse, the range has a duty to inform the CFO and your LTATT's are cancelled. There's much debate about how legal this is, but it's common practice and until you get into 'the swing of things' you're well advised to follow the established path.
Click to expand...

^ This, I needed to be a member at the range I intended to join before my ATT was approved, I'm in Alberta so that may make a difference.

You don't NEED to have a cabinet yet, your gun will be sold with a case that can be locked. If you want a cabinet at any point that's up to you but you can get it whenever you like, your lockable case is enough to comply with laws. The stack-on cases go on sale at Canadian Tire now and then, costco is also a good place to look. Most members on the forum will advise buying larger than you currently need, the case may state say 8 guns but will comfortably say 6, you can mash 8 in there but they may rub against each other etc. Plus your just going to want to fill it up so go big!

Btw do more reading up on yourself on a safe vs cabinet and what is legal and what is not
 
Noltz said:
The cabinet you are looking at is NOT a safe. You will have to trigger lock your firearms while they're stored in there, plus lock the cabinet itself. You would then be legal. By purchasing a real safe will give you a little extra security and you would not have to trigger lock them while in storage.
Click to expand...

This is odd, because I thought a restricted gun ALWAYS had to have a trigger lock when stored, regardless of the container it's stored in.

Note 6(I)

STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS
6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in
(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
 
MrSpit said:
This is odd, because I thought a restricted gun ALWAYS had to have a trigger lock when stored, regardless of the container it's stored in.

Note 6(I)

STORAGE OF RESTRICTED FIREARMS
6. An individual may store a restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device and stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) stored in a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked; and
(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in
(i) a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into, or
(ii) a vault, safe or room that has been specifically constructed or modified for the secure storage of restricted firearms and that is kept securely locked.
Click to expand...


Oh I am an idiot! Having re-read that previous post, I see the difference between container and safe..... Sorry
 
OK,ill take a shot at this :)

First off,keep an eye out at Canadian Tire for a gun Cabinet,they are on sale all the time for a pretty good price.Those are legal.For a pistol also maybe get a Plano handgun case and a small lock.For trigger locks I prefer the combination locks as you can set all of them to the same combo and you cant lose the keys.

Second for purchasing a handgun from a store usually you will go there find the one you want show him your rpal and they will call right away.Then the shop will call you to pick it up, that's it.They will arrange the statt for you.

As for mail order which I have done the most it ships right to your door and anyone 18 years or older can sign for it.The only controversy I know of is if it goes to the post office.Some say just pick it up cause how do you know whats in the package?

If you need any more help please don't be afraid to pm me.
 
My advice is to go big, if budget and space allow. I got an 8 gun cabinet and it's pretty full with only three rifles, a handgun, an ammo can, some utility boxes, and a binder for paperwork. I actually had to take my PMAGs out because otherwise I would have a avalanche every time I tried to get something out.

Even if you only plan to get one pistol, what about magazines and ammo. Granted those don't need to be locked up, but the fewer chances you take the better, especially if you buy five hundred bucks of bulk ammo and ten mags at $50 each like many of them are.
There will always be a use for a small safe/cabinet, but if you want to lock something else up you need to buy another safe/cabinet. What's better, spending $500 now or spending $200 for a pistol box and then $500 later for a rifle/ammo box?
It would suck if you see something you really like, but you need to buy a new safe to put it in as well.
 
There is a 10 and a 14 gun cabinet as well that go on sale frequently.

ht tp://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/1/Hunting/FirearmSecurityProtection/PRD~0755631P/Allegiance+14-Gun+Security+Cabinet.jsp?locale=en
 
Sounds like I'm a month ahead of you, I did my courses on Nov 2,3,4.

My thoughts, buy a bigger safe/cabinet than what you think you need. As of right now I hope to eventually get 2 pistols and 2 or 3 rifles and was looking at a 8 gun cabinet or safe. I ended up picking up the Stack on 14 gun cabinet with the bonus pistol/ammo box for $159+tx at Can tire so I'd have a bit of wiggle room down the road lol. BTW when I booked my course in September I was only planning on getting one rifle lol.

Ammo, if money is tight or limited when looking at pistol or even a rifle don't forget to look at the ammo costs. Search around and you find many calibers are only economical if you reload.
 
Thanks so much all! This is some great info, and thoughtful opinions.
Im currently thinking about an 8 gun stack-on safe at Canadian tire. Its an "ok" deal when its on sale, but at full price it seems a bit steep.
Thanks again
 
Don't be buy'n safes at full price at CDNTire! They always go on sale at 40% and more off. Unless you need one NOW NOW. There's a 16gun safe on sale now for $449. Same price as your 8 gun safe at regular price! :)
 
You know, at the end of the day, I'm beginning to think that a good ol'gun cabinet might be the best thing for right now..... There very cheep, and to my knowledge they satisfy all of my needs for a restricted gun or two..... I just need to find out what the actual laws are concerning safe/legal storage of guns and ammo are in a Non-safe.
 
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