So you wanna turn an M14 into a Precision Rig, Eh?

Hungry

Hungry

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It's New Year's Eve and my son has a few revellers in the house. They are cool and having a fun time. So I cannot sleep due to the subwoofer's pounding through the house.

Good time to discuss my ventures back in 2002 and 2003.

My first Norinco M14 set me back $ 700 from Milarm and I was glad to get hold of one since this was early 2002 and Milarm's big shipments had not landed for quite a few more months.

I shot a few handloads through the barrel and mike'd the chamber: 17 thou :eek: Typically large for the average (10 thou) Norinco M14's that would arrive a few months later. Normal size for the many, many USGI M14's that I through my hands in the mid 80's.

My brother sent me a used Douglas USGI barrel that cost him $ 100 USD. He picked it up at a gun show in Dallas. Previous owner was an NRA NM Course competitor with a "High Master" classification. I was merely a "Sharpshooter". This owner said that he shot 3000 rounds through this barrel and was beginning to drop a few X's from his normal aggregate of 490 points out of 500 points. Yeah, I would be so lucky with my 413 point average....;)

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy..... :runaway:

I unscrewed the Norc barrel (and relevant parts hanging on the barrel) and sold them on this board. I assembled the Douglas Chrome-Moly barrel. Smooth process to index... very slick, just as I expected. I re-assembled this rifle with ALL USGI parts that I had accumulated from my Dallas gun shows. Back then the US State Department did not list the M14 relevant parts as Verboten since the USA had not initiated OIF, yet. :eek:

I used a Rooster33 stainless op rod spring guide, a TRW made USGI bolt, WELDED gas cylinder assembly that cost me a Tim's double-double to have welded. Jamie (on the CGNutz board) reamed out my USGI flash suppressor at an April 2002 clinic here in Collingwood. I had installed a USGI fiberglass handguard that sat 3/16" from the top edges of the forestock, so no filing or relieving was necessary. Yes, the front band handguard retaining tabs were bent upwards to accomodate (I had to anneal it first) the fat shoulders of the Douglas barrel. :rolleyes:

I test fired the rifle as it sat glassed into a reinforced USGI glass stock (buildup with many , many layers of glass, as fat as a McMillan fat bastard NM stock). The brass mic'ed to 1.630". Perfectly dead fzcken nuts on at the SAAMI spec of 1.630". A match chamber- RFO (Right On) :D Life gets better. I had mounted my Leupold LR/T Mark4 M1 6.5 x 20 x 50 mildot reticle scope using an ARMS # 18 mount and Millett Angle - Loc 30mm rings. I know I'm gonna get flamed for swearing BY these rings when many CGNutters will swear AT them, but they work for me and my budget. Not to mention many DCRA medals won at NSCC/CFSAC, and some 50-XV's shot with these cheaper Millett rings. I shot a wack of 5 round groups. Several were 3/4" and touching, many were 1" and touching, 2 of them were 0.5" :eek: , but we all know I could have gotten lucky.

Conclusion: shoots into 3/4"... good enough for the girls we go out with. ;) More accurate than I could ever hold it.

Then I showed up at a Precision Rifle match the following weekend at CFB Borden's Mons Range. I was shooting 155 gr. Sierra Match Kings, Moly-Coated coming out of my barrel at 2800 fps. This is what I observed... :rolleyes:

At 300, 400 , 500, 600 yards, my comeups were the EXACT same as my settings on my 26" factory bbl'ed Remington VS .308 sniper rig. Nothing had changed. Life is ducky !! I was impressed with my rifle. This is great. Maybe I should shoot this for the remainder of the season. Wowsers... :dancingbanana:

Then we moved further back to 800 yard mound. Things changed QUICKLY. Remember that I am shooting the same load/bullet/powder/ammo that my Remington sniper rifle shoots. So now I have to add another 6 MOA to my familiar 800 yard setting, as recorded in my notebook. You do take notes on your scope settings don't you ? ;) I just held ONE mildot higher or so.

Discoveries from this project:

* Up to 600 yards, this would be a great sniper rig, same comeups, tight groups... yeeeeha
* After 600 yards, ballistically you are at a disadvantage with trajectory, time in flight and of course wind deflection
* You want small groups ? Save your money and buy a Tikka, Savage, Rem M700, Win M70 Stealth, SAKO, Weatherby Threat rifle, yada yada yada
* You really gotta love the M14 platform to shoot long range, otherwise you are wasting your time, money, bullets, weekend, etc.
* Shooting Long Range ? Less money gets you a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag Winchester Laredo or Remington Sendero right outta the box, even a custom 6.5 x 284 is cheaper using a Rem M700 action.

;)

So there ya go. If you really and truly wanna drop a pile and I mean a BFP (big pile) of money to build up an M25 DMR wannabe, it can be done, but you might be better off spending less $$ and buying above mentioned tactical rifle(s). Plug for Mysticplayer here.... better yet, give him your money and he can build you a 1000 yard tackdriver!! :eek:

In closing: Just like I say in my clinics, SAVE YER Money !
 
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Max Owner: I can only speak for some of the experts like NavyShooter and Mysticplayer. They have experimented a great deal with the stock M305/M14 and handloads. Their results varied from 1.5 MOA to sub MOA with handloaded match bullets. Very good accuracy for a sloppy (designed that way) battle rifle.

Hope this helps,
Barney
 
You may as well go after the 'low hanging fruit; of accuracy mods like the welded gas cylinder, bedding, etc, right? the ones that cose practically nothing, yet yield real results
 
Hungry, thanks for the kind words. yes, the Norinco M305's can be turned into some very fine shooting battle rifles but they are still battle rifles. Big nagative, they are so damn heavy.

From the last batch I tuned, they all had chambers that were cut true. A bit long but that is not the end of the world (handloading will solve this problem).

The big issues to resolve are the slop in the gas system (shiming is the solution and yes, I am going to make more shim kits), bedding, and trigger. I am not a big fan of the GI bolt swap unless you have access to a few or willing to live with one lug floating in mid air. Some fit well, others don't even come close.

From there, working up some suitable handloads should net positive results. I was able to get MOA and better using the orig rifles and a scope.

If you want a get into the 1/2 MOA range, a rebarrel and some pretty fancy costs could get you there. Maybe....

This is by far the most accurate non registered battle rifle you can buy and the Norc is head and shoulders ahead of the Springfield in value (some will argue quality too). Problem is supply. Boats are slow but I think they are still building the one for Marstar's shipment.

For those that follow my posts, you will note that I am not a big fan of bling. No matter what, the part or accessory has to improve the rifle/HG I am putting this part on. Costs also have to be relative to performance.

Spending twice the price for a stock that really doesn't change the accuracy or handling that much is what I consider bling (arguably making things worse). To each his own.

There is little doubt that true tack drivers are much easier made from bolt rifles but the AR and its many derivatives are superb. Unfortunately, only being to play with them on a range negates their LR benefits to me and the ranges in my area.

People still spend tons of money on Harleys and big block Rods. We like what we like and the M305 is certainly a great 'hog'.

Enjoy all...

Jerry

PS I am selling a match accurate 308 for less then the cost of parts so if you want a shooter, check out the exchange forum. Hope you don't mind the ad :)
 
When my Norcs were basically stock (just a Rooster op rod guide & Fiberglass stock) I was getting between 1 to 1.5 MOA with hand loads.

This was with handloaded Nosler 168gr match bullets & BLC-2 powder.

Do the cheap/free Modifications first and then decide how far you want to go with accuracy.

The list of cheap/easy Mods I would reccomend are:

-Rooster33 (or similar) NM op rod spring guide
-USGI op rod spring
-Shim/tune the gas system (Mysticplayer makes great shim kits..)
-Switch to a USGI fiberglas stock
-Check the op rod guide for looseness

You are looking at less then $200.00 to do the above and you will see a difference.Your Norc will shoot tighter and be more consistent in it's groups.

SKBY.
 
Max Owner said:
Skullboy; the mods you mention, are they hard for someone to do themselves?
Click to expand...

My own Norc had a loose op-rod guide and needed shimming. My gunsmith (Arwen Ace) charged me $20 to pull the flash hider and shim the gas system, and install a tighter roll pin to true up the op-rod guide. I bought the Marstar guiderod.
 
Max Owner said:
Skullboy; the mods you mention, are they hard for someone to do themselves?
Click to expand...

The hardest part is getting the falsh suppressor off inorder to shim the gas cylinder.

Other then that, the mods I listed are easily done by the mechanically inclined.;)

Just have a read through the M14 FAQ in the Main Battle Rifle Forum.Most of the Mods I speak of are detailed in there.

SKBY.
 
I just got my Norc and my JAE stock. Soon I'll be putting it all together with a few upgrades. What I'd like to know is what powder loads data I should start with. I understand through talking to Mystic I can't use Varget. Inlighten me on bullet weight for the twist and grains to start with. Hopefully I'll come up with the same results you all have.
 
For my M14's, I'm comfortable shooting 147 gr FMJ's up to 500m and 155 gr Sierra MK's all the way up to 800m. Cannot forget one of my favourite 155 gr AMAX Horandy slugs all the way out to 800m.

I love these charges:

41 gr. W735
41 gr W845
43.0 gr W748 (adopted load by our NRA High Power Team)

I like using the ball powder loads since we are using a shorter barrel (22 inches) versus the usual 24" or 26" tubes found in precision bolt rifles

Hope this helps,
Barney
 
I test fired the rifle as it sat glassed into a reinforced USGI glass stock (buildup with many , many layers of glass, as fat as a McMillan fat bastard NM stock).

Hungray

You said that you built up your stock using many many layers of glass. Can you please tell me how you did this. I have a USGI stock that I would like to build up the front of the stock to make it more rigid and easier to handle, but I have never worked with fiberglass and I am curious on how you are able to make the fiberglass adhere to the stock. Thanks
 
Hungry said:
Discoveries from this project:

* Up to 600 yards, this would be a great sniper rig, same comeups, tight groups... yeeeeha
* After 600 yards, ballistically you are at a disadvantage with trajectory, time in flight and of course wind deflection
* You want small groups ? Save your money and buy a Tikka, Savage, Rem M700, Win M70 Stealth, SAKO, Weatherby Threat rifle, yada yada yada
* You really gotta love the M14 platform to shoot long range, otherwise you are wasting your time, money, bullets, weekend, etc.
* Shooting Long Range ? Less money gets you a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag Winchester Laredo or Remington Sendero right outta the box, even a custom 6.5 x 284 is cheaper using a Rem M700 action.
Click to expand...
Hey Hungry! I could have told you that and saved you the money, time and frustration, but then again nobody would believe me. I did all that stuff back in the late 80's early 90's at Connaught with a NM and Super Match M14's. I suppose everone needs to see it to believe though. I cannot tell you how many times ppl got there ass handed to them by a bolt gunner or an AR-15. Many have tried and died.

Still love my plain jane Norc M14 and wouldn't think of spending a dime modifying it. It will shoot 1.5 - 2.0 with handloads and issue sights and gets a deer everytime. I love the rifle and design, but it's not a tackdriver.
When it comes to fine bolt actions, now we're not just talking turkey anymore.
 
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