soldering on my sight ramp ..... Photo added

lledwod

lledwod

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Dawson City, Yukon
Hi there. I've had a couple issues with the sight ramp on my husqvarna 4100. I knocked it off while drifting the front sight. I had it soldered back on by a 'gunsmith'. I assumed the job was done properly but knocked it off while drifting the site again! Both times there appeared to be very little solder actually holding the ramp. So I have bought some Brownells Hi-force 44 in ribbon format and would like to do a proper job myself. So here is my question;

Would someone in Canada have the right flux they could sell me? OR if I order some from Brownells (I do have access to a US PO box, just gonna take time to get it) would any one else like some? OR will the Wolverine Ultra Flux do the same job as Comet #4?

I hope someone can help get started here, I really want to get this rifle back working for me.

Thank you very much.
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Jonathan
 
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I am not sure about the flux ,,but I had a guy solder on rifle sights on a single shot 10g shotgun and it lasted for years and that is a ton of recoil ,lol I think if you can find someone that does it for a living and have it done right it should stay on ,,,Dutch
 
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Doesn't take a great deal of solder, but it needs to be silver solder and the bluing or any other finish removed first.
 
Hi, thanks for the reply's. The sight pusher is a good idea, however I believe it was the poor solder job that gave me problems. And I have the right solder for the job, I am trying to locate the right flux for the silver solder.
 
Stop at your local compressed gas distributer Canox, Liquid Air, etc. and get Ultra Flux 2 for silver soldering ferrous metals.
 
Common Borax powder works with silver solder - snitch some from your wife's laundry supplies cupboard. Do a test on a separate piece of steel for practice.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Common Borax powder works with silver solder - snitch some from your wife's laundry supplies cupboard. Do a test on a separate piece of steel for practice.
Click to expand...
He has Force 44 solder and Borax will not work. Post 7 has it right I believe...
 
Cleaning off the bluing is the only way for the silver solder to work. Consider having the sight drilled and tapped on to the barrel. There should be enough material there to not go completely through the barrel.
 
Solder (Hi Force or equal) will be rock solid if done correctly. You need to tin both surfaces. Apply flux and heat and you're good to go.
 
OK so tick mentioned 'ultra flux 2' , and I have only been able to find 'ultra flux' by wolverine ..... I am kind of out in the sticks and the closest place I could check for flux is over 500km away. Nobody here in Dawson has anything for my application.

Thanks for the help so far!

Jonathan
 
Hi Force 44 is 96% tin and 4% silver, so is Harris Stay-Brite. Stay-Clean flux is the flux for it and is available at most welding or plumbing supply places. Most hobby shops have Stay-Brite as well.
Comet Flux is made by Kapp, I'm not sure if there are any Canadian distributors for it.
 
Lledwod, a proper joint is when the solder between the parts is VERY thin. If you have an absolutely perfect match the it's possible that the solder can end up too thin You want no more of a joint space than two or three layers of aluminium foil. And we're talking .002 to .003 inches of space. Any more and the joint strength begins to drop instead of increasing.

You say you have the "right" solder for the job now but that depends on what you're willing to go through. Ideally the base would be silver soldered on. But as mentioned that requires a far higher degree of heat to where the metal is glowing a dull red in a dark room. And that hot will ruin the bluing for quite an area around the sight base. If it's a lower temperature silver bearing regular solder then it'll melt at a temperature that won't harm the bluing but it won't be as strong.

None of the lower temperature solders will tolerate being beaten with a hammer and drift punch. You will want to use a sight pusher instead. If it's red heat style silver soldered the it will be able to stand the hammer and punch.
 
I have several rifles that have had front and rear sights attached with regular 50-50 lead solder. If it is done properly the sight will stay on through all sorts of stresses. I haven't had one come off yet. The thing is the surface on both sides needs to be clean, slightly rough and well fluxed. Another very necessary tool IMHO, is a metal sight holder that fits over the sight ramp and has a V notch on the bottom to hold the whole mess top dead center where you want it to be soldered. This can be set up while everything is cold and will remain rock solid during the whole process right where it is clamped. If someone screwed up the original mounting, heat it up, take it off, clean up the area and pieces and start over. Do it right the first time. Align the sight ramp properly before it is heated up, then heat it to proper temps and apply just enough solder so it isn't running all over the place.

I have been using a product called "Magnum Steel" from Princess Auto to "Epoxy Glue" sights to barrels. That stuff is marvelous It holds as well as anything else I've seen.
 
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BCRider said:
Lledwod, a proper joint is when the solder between the parts is VERY thin. If you have an absolutely perfect match the it's possible that the solder can end up too thin You want no more of a joint space than two or three layers of aluminium foil. And we're talking .002 to .003 inches of space. Any more and the joint strength begins to drop instead of increasing.

You say you have the "right" solder for the job now but that depends on what you're willing to go through. Ideally the base would be silver soldered on. But as mentioned that requires a far higher degree of heat to where the metal is glowing a dull red in a dark room. And that hot will ruin the bluing for quite an area around the sight base. If it's a lower temperature silver bearing regular solder then it'll melt at a temperature that won't harm the bluing but it won't be as strong.

None of the lower temperature solders will tolerate being beaten with a hammer and drift punch. You will want to use a sight pusher instead. If it's red heat style silver soldered the it will be able to stand the hammer and punch.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^

When silver soldering you must have enough room for the solder.
You can make this room by using a small sharp center punch to "dimple" one surface to be soldered. This will raise the metal 0.0002" to 0.0004" to allow space for the solder.
Clean both parts,
Tin both parts with silver solder. Clamp together and heat.
The dimples will ensure there is solder left in the joint.
 
OK I'm adding a photo here of the solder joint that failed. I agree that in the future I should pick up and use a sight pusher. I still think though, that the joint would not have failed if it was done properly. Also, this rifle gets carried quite a lot, and sometimes I may be 'in the bush' for several days to weeks at a time, several times a year. I really don't want that ramp to fall off far from home!

So, again, I am in possession of Brownells hi force 44 silver solder, and am trying to find a flux, in Canada, that will work for me. I really appreciate all the help and pointers so far!

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Look at all the voids and corrosion in the voids. Clearly the joint was not done well at all. With a proper cleaning and with a good flux and heating technique the joint should have been totally filled with no voids.

This sort of mount is the style that begs for the lower temperature solder. If correctly done there should not be any problem with the sight base ever coming off again.

On the issue of drifting the front sight with a hammer and punch I'd suggest that even to knock off this badly done a joint that the dovetail might just be a trifle too tight. Firm taps should be able to move the sight in the dovetail. If you need a blow that qualifies as more than a firm tap I'm thinking that the dovetail needs to be relieved just a hair to ease up on the grip. And even a low temperature solder joint on a base with this much surface area would easily withstand that level of hammering. While the base is off I'd have a go at relieving the dovetail so it shifts the sight movement back into the proper "love tap" range of force. A triangular file with one face ground smooth is the perfect tool for this fitting work.

By the way, the low temperature solders that contain up to around 2 or 3% silver are only a slight bit stronger than the plain solder. The silver in these is mostly added to get a nice bright joint and for better wetting of the surfaces.

Steel can be a real bugger to solder well. The correct flux does wonders. I've always been a huge fan of the old original Kester paste flux that looks like honey coloured grease. But the environazis put a stop to that a few years ago. Recently I found a replacement that is even better than the old Kester paste flux. It's an oily liquid flux made by a company called Griffon. The name of the flux is S-39 Universal. If you can find it in your area this stuff is wonderful. I swear I could solder plastic to popcorn with it by how well it works on steel, copper and brass.
 
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