Some Help With XCR FTE

Travis Bickle

Travis Bickle

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Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Just got a like new XCR-L .223 Rem
Has heavy 1:7 barrel.
Shoots very accurately, was actually quite surprised.

However I experienced multiple failures to extract. Same every time. Tried 3 natures of ammunition, 2 62gr (FMJ and one open tip) and 1 55gr (Norinco)
Same with all three. Failure to exctract empty cart case, bolt travels to rear, picks up live round and jams it into the empty case which failed to extract damaging live round and causing a hard malfunction.
Clear stoppage, rifle would shoot between 2-6 rounds and same thing again.

The previous owner assured me he did the break in procedure on setting 4 and that the rifle always functioned 100% fine...

I tried the gas on every setting. I have read the armorers manual and understand the function and mechanisms of firearms very well.
The barrel chamber is clean, rifle is clean, the ejector is installed properly and not rubbing the bolt or carrier. Bolt Extractor moves back and forth and is not binding nor is it damaged.

The gas block is flush with the barrel and on tight. The barrel is on and seated properly and fully and is in line with the gas tube notch. I checked the gas plug and it is clean and not obstructed.
This is my first XCR, it is second hand but brand new condition. I've noticed two things that i need confirmed from others who own the rifle. My gas tube moves back and forth when the rifle is assembled with enough slop that it rattles back and forth, is this normal? and the gas plug in the gas block feels loose/also movesback and forth with considerable ease but does not come out (obviously).

Can someone confirm wether this is normal? And any other guidance/troubleshooting tips to figure it out.
AGAIN I have read the armorers manual in full and 100% understand the functioning/maintenance of this rifle!
 
The gas plug was firm in mine, but I did notice that the gas tube rotated in 180 degree circle , putting the vent holes in the wrong position, there by causing FTE.
 
Brianma65 said:
The gas plug was firm in mine, but I did notice that the gas tube rotated in 180 degree circle , putting the vent holes in the wrong position, there by causing FTE.
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No the holes in the tube being up or down won't cause FTE's. The holes are there in case you are using the rifle in soaking wet conditions where you would need drainage. You face them down in those conditions, any other time they are positioned up. That's out of the armorer manual. If the tube is installed correctly and the notches are engaged by the barrel and the gas block it should not be able to rotate in the receiver when assembled.

I'm starting to think it's the extractor on my bolt, when I chamber a spent casing with it and slowly pull the bolt to the rear with the cocking handle, the cart case is already falling off/down off the bolt face. When it hits the ejector it's like the extractor is barely even holding it so it just kind of plops out of the ejection port if at all (?)

When I have the cart case on the face of the bolt with the extractor over the rim (with the bolt out of the rifle) the cart case still moves all over and can be easily knocked off the face of the bolt.
I took the extractor off the bolt as per the armorer manual, the "spring" and detent are fine, the extractor has no damage.
Very strange.
Need to look into it further.
 
What gas setting are you using 2 or 3 is ideal but not written in stone, I run mine at 3 and 4, also check your extracter see if it is loose, you might need to replace the spring.
 
hbean said:
What gas setting are you using 2 or 3 is ideal but not written in stone, I run mine at 3 and 4, also check your extracter see if it is loose, you might need to replace the spring.
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Tried it all the way up to 3 but did not get it to 4.
I can't see it being not enough gas causing an extractor to slip off a cartridge rim? The spent casings showed nothing to get any info off.

Can someone do me a favour and place a spent case on the face of their bolt (bolt removed from rifle) and tell me how much play or how firmly the case is held please? Does it fall off if you give it a light back and forth shake?

I'm thinking the same thing Sir, it's a weak "spring"/rubber dong not putting enough pressure on the case rim to hold it hard enough to pull it out of the chamber.
I've also read that some barrels have "tight chambers" but sounds like nonsense especially if I'm running high quality brass ammunition (Hornady and Federal) minus the Norinco as a bulk control round lol
When I cycle the rounds into and out of the chamber slowly by hand, the cartridge tip is falling down into the mag well as it comes out of the chamber, by the time it hits the ejector it's basically just falling off the bolt face and sitting on top of the magazine (!?)
 
I'm not sure what was going on with mine as I'm not an experienced user. All I can say is that I started to have failure to extract and upon inspection I found the gas setting selecter was loose and the tube was somehow turned around. It may have somehow gotten on the s ? Setting. Anyway I tightened the gas block down with blue lock tight and that solved my fte . And it ran then ran smooth on setting 2.
 
Brianma65 said:
Sorry, wish I could try that for ya, but I sold the rifle a couple months ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks anyhow Sir.
The gas block is tight, the bolt is nice and tight and it's sitting on the barrel shoulder nice and flush right where it should be.

This is killing me as I love the rifle itself and it shoots VERY well, the accuracy surprised me. I just want the damned thing to cycle! :(
 
From my experience, in an AR that failure is often cause by too much gas, not too little. The extraction is out running the dwell time.

Sounds like you might jsut have a weak extractor if turning down the gas did not solve the problems.

Travis Bickle said:
When I cycle the rounds into and out of the chamber slowly by hand, the cartridge tip is falling down into the mag well as it comes out of the chamber, by the time it hits the ejector it's basically just falling off the bolt face and sitting on top of the magazine (!?)
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An extractor typically cannot support the case in the bolt and will allow it to fall free when not otherwise supported, so if you have a receiver mounted ejector, that's exactly what I would expect to happen if you slowly cycled a bolt.
 
I was having FTE issues with an occasional stuck case by about 2700 rounds with my XCR micro, the extractor was so loose I could almost slide it off the bolt, after I replace the spring my 7.62X39 bolt will hold on to the round tight enough to allow me to shake it upside down as if I was stirring a cup of coffee, if I was to push on the extractor now it barely moves at all, I hope that gives you an idea how tight it should be.

The round is meant to stay on the bolt until the ejector in the receiver flick it off the bolt

just a bit of added info I was using Ed's Red for cleaning, it is cocktail of acetone, lacquer thinner and kerosene all are not nylon/rubber friendly, since then I switched over to using gunzilla.
 
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hbean said:
I was having FTE issues with an occasional stuck case by about 2700 rounds with my XCR micro, the extractor was so loose I could almost slide it off the bolt, after I replace the spring my 7.62X39 bolt will hold on to the round tight enough to allow me to shake it upside down as if I was stirring a cup of coffee, if I was to push on the extractor now it barely moves at all, I hope that gives you an idea how tight it should be.

The round is meant to stay on the bolt until the ejector in the receiver flick it off the bolt

just a bit of added info I was using Ed's Red for cleaning, it is cocktail of acetone, lacquer thinner and kerosene all are not nylon/rubber friendly, since then I switched over to using gunzilla.
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That's about exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you Sir!
I can easily move the extractor back and forth laterally with zero resistance. I think I need a new spring.

Ack on the Eds red lol I use it for my heavy duty cleaning/carbon removal but NEVER on my plastic barbie rifles! lol Ask me how I found that one out ;)

I guess Wolverine is the parts supplier up in these parts? Who has the best deal on parts?
 
Conte said:
From my experience, in an AR that failure is often cause by too much gas, not too little. The extraction is out running the dwell time.

Sounds like you might jsut have a weak extractor if turning down the gas did not solve the problems.



An extractor typically cannot support the case in the bolt and will allow it to fall free when not otherwise supported, so if you have a receiver mounted ejector, that's exactly what I would expect to happen if you slowly cycled a bolt.
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And yes, I am 98% positive that it's the extractor now. I have done a lot of interweb research.
All things now point to this. I have gone over the rifle piece by piece using the armorer manual as a guide. All else is 100% as it should be.
 
I had a similar problem with mine, turns out the original owner lost the locking washer for the case deflector and didn't mention it when they put it up for consignment. The result was that the screw that holds the deflector in place was sticking out into the path of the bolt and wearing out the extractor. Added a washer, replaced the extractor, no problems since. Btw, extractors and the springs are cheap, so order a handful for the future.
 
Soyoman1980 said:
I had a similar problem with mine, turns out the original owner lost the locking washer for the case deflector and didn't mention it when they put it up for consignment. The result was that the screw that holds the deflector in place was sticking out into the path of the bolt and wearing out the extractor. Added a washer, replaced the extractor, no problems since. Btw, extractors and the springs are cheap, so order a handful for the future.
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That's a kick in the junk for sure.
I'm starting to think this one went up for sale on the EE for similar reasons now. The gas tube (receiver end) had a small dent in it that prevented it from being inserted properly in the receiver. When I got the rifle, the gas tube was installed backwards in the receiver by previous owner. I had to take a small file to the damaged area so it would actually fit into the receiver the proper way.
There's always a way to fix anything, it just sucks as now I'm waiting on a $30 spring and extractor from Wolverine.
We'll see what happens with a fresh spring and extractor....
There's nothing else I can see or find that could be causing the problem in this case. I'll post back once I get it sorted out if I can add any helpful info to anyone in the same boat.
 
Just an update, ordered the $18 parts from Wolverine. New Extractor and extractor spring and it now works 100% reliably on setting one! :rockOn:
I'm really liking this rifle. Glad I got it used at a great price!

If anyone is having similar problems, it may be time or a new extractor and spring!
 
Glad to hear it is working well for you, I am in the process of finding an alternative material for the extractor spring that is more chemical resistant :)
 
hbean said:
Glad to hear it is working well for you, I am in the process of finding an alternative material for the extractor spring that is more chemical resistant :)
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It's funny I was debating that myself.
I wonder if a good old fashioned stiff metal coil spring would work? Would need to figure out the resistance required and proper tension etc.
I think the old rubber dong thingy is a little too "progressive" an idea for me.
Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think a metal spring is a more robust and reliable part.
 
Considering the diameter they have to work with, the steel wire is simply too thin to provide enough compression that is needed for reliable extraction.

I am looking at 2 mm dia. urethane belting material, it has a high durometer rating, good heat tolerance and good fuel/oil resistance as well, best of all they come in 10 ft length for about $30-40 shipped.
 
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Conte said:
What's up with the extractor spring that it needs chemical resistance ?
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It's literally a piece of rubber. Picture a thin piece of cylindrical rubber about 3/8" long. That's the spring. That's what puts the tension upwards on the extractor to keep the cartridge case firmly griped to the bolt face and enough flex to snap over the cartridge rim when it is chambered.

Most of the consensus I have researched is that certain types of gun cleaners and solvents are weakening the rubber hence the very common defect of failure to extract in these rifles.
I'm also pretty sure that the high levels of heat that part of the rifle is subjected to have something to do with the "spring" getting weak. I think it's a pretty flawed aspect of the design and I'm not sure why they went with it over a traditional spring personally. Save money in production? make money on overcharging for a "spring" when it's just a piece of cut rubber?
 
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